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In Moral Defense of Israel
The Ayn Rand Institute ^ | Robert W Tracinski

Posted on 04/11/2002 11:21:46 PM PDT by weikel

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To: truth_seeker
The "Arabs" of which you speak are not Arab but Palestinians, a people with nothing to lose. They're Semetic people too in case you've forgotten. Secondly, as the Rabbi Mentz said Arab nations do not have offensive armies. They're defensive to protect the regimes from their own people if necessary. Lastly, you're talking ancient history. Let's talk about how Israel violated the Oslo accords by continuing to develop settlements in the Palestinian territories (despite what talk host Medved claims). Sharon's overseen more than thirty new settlements in the past year. Sharon's response (over 4000 detained with just 120-some having been actively sought, and worse murdering HUNDREDS of Palestinians according to their own Army's chief spokesman ON RECORD) is COMPLETELY disproportionate to the bombings. Sharon's ignoring the US and, worse, trying to drag us under by suggesting America ALONE supply a peace keeping force. Israel made a very bad choice by voting in the likes of Ariel Sharon.
41 posted on 04/12/2002 12:25:44 AM PDT by newzjunkey
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To: TLBSHOW
AMG is a brand new (April 11th) guest. I wonder how many times he's been booted off before? Hmmmmmm?
43 posted on 04/12/2002 12:26:53 AM PDT by My Identity
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To: newzjunkey
Well I would prefer Bibi to Sharon there would be more than 100 dead terrorist if he were in charge thats for sure.
44 posted on 04/12/2002 12:27:11 AM PDT by weikel
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To: AMG
Palestinians owned it. They lived continuously on it for 2,000 years.

Ha Ha Ha Ha. You're killin' me man.
You're just putting up trash to see whose goat you can get, right?
45 posted on 04/12/2002 12:28:04 AM PDT by My Identity
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To: AMG
They are not motivated by ficticious stolen land they are motivated by radical Islam and fanatical Arab nationalism and they haven't wrecked just Israel they caused terrible trouble in Lebanon and after the 6 day war they tried to overthrow the Hashemites in Jordan( but King Hussein unlike Israel didn't pussyfoot around in dealing with that).
46 posted on 04/12/2002 12:29:54 AM PDT by weikel
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To: AMG
Mark Twain's visit to the area contradicts that.
48 posted on 04/12/2002 12:31:49 AM PDT by weikel
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To: AMG
If someone steals your land, would you be happy about that or fight back? When someone steals your land, it cries out for justice, which must be satisfied. The UN partitioned Palestine without first obtaining their consent. Just because the UN partitions your land doesn't make it right or legal.

Well, it would seem that is the basis for the ongoing conflict, isn't it? Boundaries for ALL nations get/got set, in a variety of historical methods.

One method is war, whereby "to the victor go the spoils." That would be the basis for the 1967 boundaries, yet Israel gave up the Sinai, through a negotiated peace settlement, through the auspices of the UN. The Palestinian side stands to benefit from UN resolution 242, by which borders would be made more favorable to them, with the provisos of peace, and recognition of Israel's right to exist.

That would indicate Palestinians' willingness to recognize the authority of the UN, when it stands to way to their benefit.

Further, the other Arab states have indicated willingness to recognize Israel, with reversion to pre-1967 borders, under the auspices of the UN.

So why is it impossible for Arafat, and the palis, to suspend terrorism, come to the negotiating table?

Why is it that the overwhelming number of current worldwide conflicts involve Muslims? I'll tell you my opinion. They seek conquest of the world, by whatever means necessary. Israel is just the current media hotspot. Is it "moral" for musli-terrorists in the Philipines, to hold Christian missionaries captive? Please explain this aspect of Islamist "morality."

49 posted on 04/12/2002 12:32:05 AM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: AMG
Jews are not claiming Arabs stole anything. Arabs lived on that land for 1,900 years before Jews made their Zionist claim.

Wrong again, my friend.

The real value of Jewish private and communal property expropriated in Arab countries is $30 billion, according to an estimate from Moshe Shalal, President of the World Organization of Jews from Arab Countries. See link.

You really are tiresome. Goodnight.
51 posted on 04/12/2002 12:35:14 AM PDT by My Identity
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To: My Identity
yep another du rat has arrived!
52 posted on 04/12/2002 12:35:43 AM PDT by TLBSHOW
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To: AMG
prove it
53 posted on 04/12/2002 12:36:37 AM PDT by TLBSHOW
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To: AMG
You need some history lessons. It's clear you have no grasp of the facts.
54 posted on 04/12/2002 12:36:46 AM PDT by vance
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To: AMG
Chapter 56 WE visited all the holy places about Jerusalem which we had left unvisited when we journeyed to the Jordan and then, about three o'clock one afternoon, we fell into procession and marched out at the stately Damascus gate, and the walls of Jerusalem shut us out forever. We paused on the summit of a distant hill and took a final look and made a final farewell to the venerable city which had been such a good home to us.

For about four hours we traveled down hill constantly. We followed a narrow bridle-path which traversed the beds of the mountain gorges, and when we could we got out of the way of the long trains of laden camels and asses, and when we could not we suffered the misery of being mashed up against perpendicular walls of rock and having our legs bruised by the passing freight. Jack was caught two or three times, and Dan and Moult as often. One horse had a heavy fall on the slippery rocks, and the others had narrow escapes. However, this was as good a road as we had found in Palestine, and possibly even the best, and so there was not much grumbling.

Sometimes, in the glens, we came upon luxuriant orchards of figs, apricots, pomegranates, and such things, but oftener the scenery was rugged, mountainous, verdureless and forbidding. Here and there, towers were perched high up on acclivities which seemed almost inaccessible. This fashion is as old as Palestine itself and was adopted in ancient times for security against enemies.

We crossed the brook which furnished David the stone that killed Goliah, and no doubt we looked upon the very ground whereon that noted battle was fought. We passed by a picturesque old gothic ruin whose stone pavements had rung to the armed heels of many a valorous Crusader, and we rode through a piece of country which we were told once knew Samson as a citizen.

We staid all night with the good monks at the convent of Ramleh, and in the morning got up and galloped the horses a good part of the distance from there to Jaffa, or Joppa, for the plain was as level as a floor and free from stones, and besides this was our last march in holy Land. These two or three hours finished, we and the tired horses could have rest and sleep as long as we wanted it. This was the plain of which Joshua spoke when he said, "Sun, stand thou still on Gibeon, and thou moon in the valley of Ajalon." As we drew near to Jaffa, the boys spurred up the horses and indulged in the excitement of an actual race -- an experience we had hardly had since we raced on donkeys in the Azores islands.

We came finally to the noble grove of orange-trees in which the Oriental city of Jaffa lies buried; we passed through the walls, and rode again down narrow streets and among swarms of animated rags, and saw other sights and had other experiences we had long been familiar with. We dismounted, for the last time, and out in the offing, riding at anchor, we saw the ship! I put an exclamation point there because we felt one when we saw the vessel. The long pilgrimage was ended, and somehow we seemed to feel glad of it.

[For description of Jaffa, see Universal Gazetteer.] Simon the Tanner formerly lived here. We went to his house. All the pilgrims visit Simon the Tanner's house. Peter saw the vision of the beasts let down in a sheet when he lay upon the roof of Simon the Tanner's house. It was from Jaffa that Jonah sailed when he was told to go and prophesy against Nineveh, and no doubt it was not far from the town that the whale threw him up when he discovered that he had no ticket. Jonah was disobedient, and of a fault-finding, complaining disposition, and deserves to be lightly spoken of, almost. The timbers used in the construction of Solomon's Temple were floated to Jaffa in rafts, and the narrow opening in the reef through which they passed to the shore is not an inch wider or a shade less dangerous to navigate than it was then. Such is the sleepy nature of the population Palestine's only good seaport has now and always had. Jaffa has a history and a stirring one. It will not be discovered any where in this book. If the reader will call at the circulating library and mention my name, he will be furnished with books which will afford him the fullest information concerning Jaffa.

So ends the pilgrimage. We ought to be glad that we did not make it for the purpose of feasting our eyes upon fascinating aspects of nature, for we should have been disappointed -- at least at this season of the year. A writer in "Life in the holy Land" observes:

"Monotonous and uninviting as much of the holy Land will appear to persons

accustomed to the almost constant verdure of flowers, ample streams and varied

surface of our own country, we must remember that its aspect to the Israelites

after the weary march of forty years through the desert must have been very different."

Which all of us will freely grant. But it truly is "monotonous and uninviting," and there is no sufficient reason for describing it as being otherwise.

Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and despondent. The Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee sleep in the midst of a vast stretch of hill and plain wherein the eye rests upon no pleasant tint, no striking object, no soft picture dreaming in a purple haze or mottled with the shadows of the clouds. Every outline is harsh, every feature is distinct, there is no perspective -- distance works no enchantment here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land.

Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side. I would like much to see the fringes of the Jordan in spring-time, and Shechem, Esdraelon, Ajalon and the borders of Galilee -- but even then these spots would seem mere toy gardens set at wide intervals in the waste of a limitless desolation.

Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies. Where Sodom and Gomorrah reared their domes and towers, that solemn sea now floods the plain, in whose bitter waters no living thing exists -- over whose waveless surface the blistering air hangs motionless and dead -- about whose borders nothing grows but weeds, and scattering tufts of cane, and that treacherous fruit that promises refreshment to parching lips, but turns to ashes at the touch. Nazareth is forlorn; about that ford of Jordan where the hosts of Israel entered the Promised Land with songs of rejoicing, one finds only a squalid camp of fantastic Bedouins of the desert; Jericho the accursed, lies a moldering ruin, to-day, even as Joshua's miracle left it more than three thousand years ago; Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and their humiliation, have nothing about them now to remind one that they once knew the high honor of the leader's presence; the hallowed spot where the shepherds watched their flocks by night, and where the angels sang Peace on earth, good will to men, is untenanted by any living creature, and unblessed by any feature that is pleasant to the eye. Renowned Jerusalem itself, the stateliest name in history, has lost all its ancient grandeur, and is become a pauper village; the riches of Solomon are no longer there to compel the admiration of visiting Oriental queens; the wonderful temple which was the pride and the glory of Israel, is gone, and the Ottoman crescent is lifted above the spot where, on that most memorable day in the annals of the world, they reared the holy cross. The noted Sea of Galilee, where Roman fleets once rode at anchor and the disciples of the leader sailed in their ships, was long ago deserted by the devotees of war and commerce, and its borders are a silent wilderness; Capernaum is a shapeless ruin; Magdala is the home of beggared Arabs; Bethsaida and Chorazin have vanished from the earth, and the "desert places" round about them where thousands of men once listened to the leader's voice and ate the miraculous bread, sleep in the hush of a solitude that is inhabited only by birds of prey and skulking foxes.

Palestine is desolate and unlovely. And why should it be otherwise? Can the curse of the Deity beautify a land?

Palestine is no more of this work-day world. It is sacred to poetry and tradition -- it is dream-land.

This is part of Mark Twain's commentary on visiting in 1867.

56 posted on 04/12/2002 12:39:35 AM PDT by weikel
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To: AMG
You are new to FreeRepublic so I do not know if you are an American, and my guess is probably not, so I'll just give you a broader view of the history of my country than you seem to know.

The United States of America was the first nation in history that established itself on the proposition that all men are created equal. It wrote an end to the importation of slaves into the Constitution, and when slavery didn't end under the new self-government as expected, we went to war to forcibly bring it to an end. We were the first nation in the world to abolish slavery. It was the Confederate States of America that were founded on slavery, not the U.S.A., and the United States of America defeated them. And in the process more Americans died than in all of our other wars combined.

P.S. You are all wet about Israel being all wrong and the Palestinians being all right, too.

59 posted on 04/12/2002 12:43:55 AM PDT by patriciaruth
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To: AMG
claim to land

Oops, just remembered something from Horowitz:

The struggle in the Middle East is not now and has never been about land. Israel occupies a miniscule 1% of the Arab Middle East and less than 10% of the entire Palestine Mandate, which was not even a political entity - let alone a nation, when the Jews' rights were granted. It was just a "mandate" carved by the British out of the Turkish empire after the First World War, and then allotted 90% to the Arabs and 10% to the Jews.

Today the land called Jordan - a nation wholly created by Britain - occupies 80% of the landmass that made up the original Palestine Mandate. Nearly 70% of its inhabitants are still Palestinian Arabs, yet Jordan is not the target of a Palestine liberation movement. How is this possible? It is possible because the Hashemites who rule Palestinian Jordan and are a minority within Jordan, are Muslims not Jews. The Middle East War is not about land and not about injustice. It is a religious war - a jihad -- against the Jews.

If you can't produce references for your off-the-wall claims, just give it up. Don't waste the bandwidth.

Good night for real this time...
60 posted on 04/12/2002 12:44:52 AM PDT by My Identity
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