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To: LadyAustin
The US and Europe should force the Israelis and the Arabs to become secular. NO PRIVLIGES FOR CITIZENS BASED ON RELIGION! Is that so difficult? All these foaming at the mouth supporters of Israel never fault Israel for having a national religion. The same people would never approve the US as a Christian country. The Arabs are even more difficult bunch to deal with. They scream their religious prayers in the streets to Moslems and non Moslems. These guys must learn to keep religion as a private thing.

As long as both sides are so attached to their religion, and even want to kill themselves for it, we will never see the end of this. It is so simple; just give up religion as a part of the state sponsored programs. Having a secular nation is "good" just look at America, and Europe, people of all faiths coexist.

If the US continue to disregard the heat and hate of religions as a big part of this, we will be fooling ourselves thinking of peace. The only way out is FORCE THE ARABS AND THE ISRAELIS to give up their drive to push their religions through the state governments. Preferential treatment is never good, and will never contribute to harmony among people. At least Israel has Arabs in their legislation body. I don't think there is single Jew in any Arab government.

17 posted on 04/08/2002 11:33:04 AM PDT by philosofy123
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To: philosofy123
"Forcing" Semites (Arab or Jew) to do anything against their will is about as tough as it gets. Personally, I think you should be forced to repeat the sixth grade until you learn to spell "philosophy" and count past the number 3.
22 posted on 04/08/2002 11:48:33 AM PDT by katana
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To: philosofy123
Religious faith is the very heart of what makes a human what he is. No Christian, Jew, or Muslim would ever give up his faith for a little temporary prosperity--if he did, it would only show he never had it in the first place.

You say you would FORCE persons to give up their faith. That would involve several guards for each person, to make sure he or she did not lapse into prayer or meditation...you would have to guard them in bed at night, and 24 hrs. a day, and blow them to pieces if they happened to mention God or to pray, or to read/study religious papers or books, etc.

Some tyranny YOU are proposing! I think I'll take the status quo!

32 posted on 04/08/2002 12:29:25 PM PDT by crystalk
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To: philosofy123
Just a couple of points here:

Israel is a secular state, most citizens are Jewish, many are Islamic, some are Christian. All relegions appear to be allowed to freely exercise their faith and, apart from what we might consider illegal aliens in this context, do not seem to be at war with each other. Iran also, I believe, is a secular state, voicing support for islamist causes only when it serves their interests.

Egypt is NOT a secular state, however it is also NOT an Arab state and was therefore able to achieve both a degree of success against the Israeli armed forces and a reasonable peace with Israel. It is nonetheless an islamic state, generally less fundamentalist but prone to lose it's more assertive faithful to causes such as Al Qaida or the DNC.

Jordan is the other half or so of Palestine and has steadfastly refused to accept any palistinian/jordinians into its society. Those pal/jordinians are fortified into 'camps' because Jordan and other Islamic states instructed them to leave the Israeli side in 1948 and put them into the hands of the UN rather than taking any of them in.

Any neighboring states, including then mostly Christian Lebanon, that DID allow Arafat et al to stop over soon tossed them out as threats to ANY presiding government.

I presume you refuse to vacation in, or pass through, Utah for the same reasons you demand that Israelis stop shooting back...after all, most of them are Mormon, they did once actively resist US occupation, and even flirted with the Confederacy. I presume it means nothing to you that all religeons are practiced there, the standard of living is good, and it's the home of the Browing Museum. After all, they do go to church a lot.

There is no moral equivalency in this mess unless you want to link Hitler with any given Islamic leader at any given time....Oops...that won't work either, Hitler was elected.

35 posted on 04/08/2002 12:58:05 PM PDT by norton
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To: philosofy123
Philo, hate to disillusion you on this, but Israel really is a non-religious country. Your average Israeli is not at all religious, and views holidays like Yom Kippur as a good excuse to go to the beach. Seriously. The religious parties have a fair amount of political power in their parliamentary system, but to call Israel a theocracy is just wrong.

Ditto that on the Palestinians. What they are, are Arab nationalists, like the Iraqis and Egyptians. Despite the religious rhetoric, your average Palestinian is nowhere as religious as, say, your average Saudi.

49 posted on 04/08/2002 5:35:57 PM PDT by LadyAustin
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