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To: AM2000
aving said that.. Israel's occupation of Palestine runs contrary to every principle of self-determination I've ever heard of.. that the PLO is a terrorist organization is no excuse for denying the Palestinian people their legitimate right of self-determination. Palestine is not in Israel.

You can't say that without operating in a vacuum. There is no fight for the palestinians to have self determination. Jordan is a Monarchy, but is the only nation in the region aside from Israel that allows Palestinians to be citizens - so clearly the nations supporting the PLO are merely using it as a canard - and a thinly veiled one at that.

Second, when the Arab nations attacked Israel in 1967, the West Bank area was not an independant Palestine (at least any more than Jordan in general was and is), but rather merely one part of Jordan, which was then lost in the war. Should there be no penalty for starting a war on annihilation and losing? And this was a war that had - and still has - the full support of the local populace of the West Bank. Security zones are a modern phenomenon, as it used to be that when one began a war and lost, you lost whatever the other could take. Israel has been most restrained.

Third, the EU gives the PA some $55 Million a month; Israel supports and armed a large Palestinian police force; the other Arab nations add other amounts; yet there is no sign of the PA making any significant effort to form a public government. They build no roads; they set up no real courts; they do little legitimate government activity - not to mention never having been elected. How exactly does the PA work towards Palestinian self-determination?

13 posted on 04/06/2002 11:47:34 AM PST by lepton
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To: lepton
There is no fight for the palestinians to have self determination.

I disagree. The PLO, which is a proxy for other Arab nations and the worldwide Islamic fundamentalist network, is tapping into some very real resentment against Israeli policies. That the PLO is an enemy to civilization does not legitimize the Israeli occupation of the territories.

Second, when the Arab nations attacked Israel in 1967, the West Bank... (was)... part of Jordan

Correct. However, that is not the point. The point is that the people who inhabit the West Bank are opposed to Israeli rule. By any standards of self-determination, that makes Israeli occupation of the WB immoral. How the Bush administration balances this fact with the greater (and more urgent) fact that the PLO is a front for Islamic terrorism, will be a good test of its foreign policy.

Should there be no penalty for starting a war on annihilation and losing?

There can be, but that is inconsistent with all the rhetoric we in the West have always thrown around in various international fora, of the principles of self-determination and what-not.

there is no sign of the PA making any significant effort to form a public government. They build no roads; they set up no real courts; they do little legitimate government activity - not to mention never having been elected. How exactly does the PA work towards Palestinian self-determination?

I never said the PA does. The obstacles before that goal are both the Israeli occupation and the PLO (and it's Arab/European supporters).

23 posted on 04/06/2002 12:12:13 PM PST by AM2000
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