Part 2: Homosexual Culture Undercuts Priesthood

NewsMax ^ | 4-5-2002 | Phil Brennan

[Notwithstanding]

In another thread I had criticized Fr. Cozzens. Upon reflection, I have read two articles containing excerpts from his book. One lead me to think he was a theological liberal who is a cafeteria Catholic. But this article leaves me thinking he is not so liberal after all. I can now state that I do not know enough about Fr. Cozzens work and perspective to either endorse or ciritcize it.

[ELS]

See a list of Catholic related threads.

[anniegetyourgun]

I am not a Catholic, but I'm wondering how this could have happened over the recent decades without SOMEONE (other than a handful listed here) blowing the whistle? Were there no signs? Were there no overseers? Was there no accountability in the seminaries? Did those in the pews just keep quiet when they found these things out? Are people (and I don't mean just victims) in the church being bought off for silence?

Are there any priests on FR or any experts on the Catholic church hierarchy who can answer these questions?

I know that in protestant churches abuse can happen too. It's usually male to female, however. And yes, there have been some cover-ups. But there is NO indication from any quarter that protestant seminaries have endured this kind of thing over the last 30 years. (Our seminaries are only accused of having left their first love and teaching liberal theologies - which is true of many of them.) But as to direct abuse, my sense is that in the last decade, Protestant churches are much more willing to discipline and out such offenders. In fact, it's usually done in an ugly way, blasted into the secular press, and rarely follows biblical church discipline standards. We have our own share of problems with "speaking the truth in love." But it seems the Catholic church is having a problem with just "speaking the truth" to begin with.

[FormerLib]

Homosexual culture (along with any other celebrated sin) undercuts (and undermines) everything that is decent in this world.

[Notwithstanding]

Not being in the shoes of those who have made the decisions, I cannot say why things are the way they are. I think that those in charge gave the "benefit of the doubt" to an imprudent degree. (In a [now failed] effort to avoid the media scandals you mention in protestant churches). We call this "avoiding scandal". Causing a public scandal intentionally is always something the clergy will avoid at almost any cost. Not that this is justified - but it certainly is understandable how the human frailty of the leaders caused them to cover up the existence of this lavander mafia. Of course some leaders may have been (likely) members of the mafia and some may have been blackmailed for hetero or or other offenses and thus covered up to save face.

[ex-snook]

" but I'm wondering how this could have happened over the recent decades without SOMEONE (other than a handful listed here) blowing the whistle? "

The Church seemingly accepted the ways of the world - don't ask, don't tell. But crimes by gays anywhere, get glossed over. There was a boy killed some time ago, I saw it posted here but not in my paper or the media news. Even the Priest problem is still cast by the media, falsely, as pedophilia. Wonder how much the legal profession raked in because of this - what was their 'advice' to the Church?

[anniegetyourgun]

But even the legal profession could not have been complicit if they were not engaged by the Catholic church to keep things quiet and arrange for payoffs. And isn't it possible that the vast majority of those lawyers were Catholic themselves?

[anniegetyourgun]

And another (perhaps ignorant) question for you: If there was an implicit "don't ask, don't tell" policy inside the seminaries and parishes on this sin, how many other sins are tolerated within the priesthood?

[Palladin]

Thanks for this article. Many good priests and laymen have been trying to sound the alarm for several years now. It has fallen on deaf ears, as far as the hierarchy is concerned. That is implicit approval.

[Renatus]

Were there no overseers?

I don't know about all but I do know some seminaries have boards of directors composed of laymen and women, religious. priests and bishops.

[ex-snook]

"how many other sins are tolerated within the priesthood"

"don't ask, don't tell" has been accepted by the military and public policy in general for homosexuals. But I imagine a few priests might drink too much sometimes. That is about all I know and don't mention.

[Longshanks]

Your questions and assertions are troubling but not unfair. Not only priests and bishops, but also the Catholic people as a whole are shamed by these events. It shows, once again, that what is worse than evil committed by bad men is the indifference of supposedly good men.

[Notwithstanding]

Mega-ditto

[anniegetyourgun]

Yes, it seems the average Catholic is bearing the worst of this, while the heirarchy spends their days in court and before the press. I'm sorry for them and this whole mess that simply mars the face of Christ.

I just find it interesting (since I belong to a non-denominational church) that people whine all the time about non-denominational and independent churches not have any accountability structure. This situation makes me wonder what would happen if we did.....

[jpthomas]

My wife's cousin entered a seminary about twenty years ago with the intention of joining the priesthood. The homosexual advances of many of his fellow seminarians and faculty caused him to abandon his plans.

[Sci Fi Guy]

I am not a Catholic, but I'm wondering how this could have happened over the recent decades without SOMEONE (other than a handful listed here) blowing the whistle? Were there no signs? Were there no overseers? Was there no accountability in the seminaries?...

I guessing but I think the problem is that with any organization will attract bureaucrats. People who feel that the organization is the mission, that policy outweighs doctrine. It's possible that the Roman Catholic Church has too many bureaucrats, who would prefer to protect the organization, than undergo a humbling purification.

[Palladin]

Good analysis. I would only add the old saying "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

[ED Basher]

I live in Rhode Island. This priest scandal has been all over the news. Everyone is calling these priests pedophiles. I have a simple question:

Suppost my friend has an affair with a 15 yr old high school girl. We all would consider him a horn bag and a dirty old man, but not a pedophile. When a priest has an affair with a 15 year old boy, he is not considered a horny homo, but is instead labeled a PEDOPHILE. In my state 14 years old is the age of constent for statutatory rape.

Listening to the news, all I hear is the press denying the fact that these guys are homosexuals, and insisting that pedophiles are not homosexuals; but the majority of the compliants involve young men, which is not pedophila (IMHO) The talk show hosts go on and saying pedophiles who molest 8 year old girls are not gay, therefore the priests (who happen to have had affairs with 14 year old boys) are not gay. The logic does not hold up.

Everyone is so afraid of offending the powerful gay special interests groups, they are throwing these homo priests to the wolves. Sure the priests used their positions to score, but most of the alleged "victims" were of a consenting age, and are going to get huge cash settlements. How many of this cases were molestations, and how many were consentual? With the millions of dollars involved we will never know ....

Granted IMHO homosexuality is a mental depravity brought on by our messed up society. It has no place in the church, but let's all be a little careful not to jump to conclusions and brand most of these homo horn bags as pedophiles (the scum of the Earth).

[aculeus]

Father Andrew Greeley called it the "Lavender Mafia,"

Good for him (liberal that he is).