A Few Blunt Words to Catholics (Long)

The Roman Catholic Faithful ^ | 04-04-02 | Kennesaw

[HamiltonJay]

And you are missing my point, I am not defending Communism as anything great, it was an abysmal blot of the face of humanity... Just as abortion is. I am not saying the US is as bad as communism either.... Just saying we carry our own sin, and its death toll is running just as high... albeit "individuals volutarily comitting murder" as opposed to state murder... the results are the same..

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

"Faith without works is dead and has no power to save you!"

I agree with this whole heartedly. Good Post.

[smith288]

Although I commend this article about the evils of abortion, im afraid this is the path God has set out for Earth. Prepare to be condemned for accepting Christ as your savior real soon.

[dheretic]

Of course the camps are long closed, the infant slaughter houses still operate full tilt.

It is disgusting to see you denigrate the suffering caused by and severity in those concentration camps by comparing mere abortion to them. Before you get righteous on me, ask yourself whether you'd be willing to get in line and adopt an unwanted baby. If you aren't then shut up, you have no moral authority of any kind on this issue. Unless you want to breed social conditions for massive increases in welfare spending I suggest you rethink **the logistics** of opposing abortion-on-demand of any kind being legal.

You "pro-life" (anti-choice is far more appropraite) need to face up to the following issues raised by your beliefs should they be made public policy:

1. 1.5-1.88M more babies a year that are unwanted cannot be housed by our adoption systems
2. Even if the rate dropped down to only a few hundred thousand it would strain the system severely if not break it entirely
3. Most people will not adopt babies they think are "defective." Are you willing to adopt a crack baby? And that raises the moral question: should such babies even be legally allowed to be born since their lives will be hell?
4. You will give ammunition to those that favor increased welfare spending
5. You will give ammunition to those that want to create or vastly expand government supported adoption centers
6. Many parents are not as progressive and caring as you think on sex issues. What are you going to do when many girls nationwide get beaten, disowned and/or thrown out of their homes for getting pregnant? Probably nothing, many of you are the same types that would say that she somehow brought that on herself.

[HamiltonJay]

Before you get righteous on me, ask yourself whether you'd be willing to get in line and adopt an unwanted baby

Hey Jacka$$, I am in line to adopt, jumping through all the little state hoops as we speak. Your attempt to defend the indefensible is astounding.

[txzman]

My friend - I am glad YOU had a different background. I attended church, in Irish communities in Chicago, Portuguese schools in Thailand and Jesuit schools in Japan. Not ONE Priest ever told me to read the Bible for penance (and no one I know ever got that either) - or for any other reason.

Good for you. I simply joined a Christian church whose focus was what Jesus intended - read and hold close His Word - not what other men tell you is His Word

[Palladin]

You always give us food for thought.

The Catholic Catechism teaches that the signs of the true church are four:

It is one.

It is holy.

It is catholic (universal).

It is apostolic.

I am sorry to say that the Catholic Church in America, as a result of widespread institutional practices of homosexuality and pedophilia among its clergy, is no longer HOLY.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

And you are missing my point, I am not defending Communism as anything great, it was an abysmal blot of the face of humanity... Just as abortion is. I am not saying the US is as bad as communism either.... Just saying we carry our own sin, and its death toll is running just as high... albeit "individuals volutarily comitting murder" as opposed to state murder... the results are the same..

I didn't suppose that you were defending communism.  But one of the main points of the article (pointed out in the first paragraph) is that we have killed more people than any other in history.  This is patent nonsense - even using your high-end figures (btw, between 1973 and 1998 between 35,000,000 and 38,000,000 abortions were done.  It has been estimated that 1.5 million abortions have been done every year in the nearly 30 years since Roe vs. Wade.  Not a nice statistic, certainly, but that only adds up to 45,000,000 in 30 years, vs 120,000,000 for commies over a period of time less than that).  Now it's true that the total world abortion rate is far higher, but since the article was focusing on U.S. cupability, I felt the need to show that communist killings alone are over twice as bad as we are.  Even though the Nazis killed less, their killing rate was around 5 million a year, over 3 times the average abortion rate here in the U.S.  Additionally, if you throw in abortions for both the communists and Nazis, you will find that as bad as the U.S. is, we completely pale in comparison.

[HamiltonJay]

Ah so, because communism and nazis killed en mass for short periods of time, it means they are inately more evil than abortion which will if things stay they way the are kill far more, but just over a longer period? Murder is murder, state sanctioned or state executed is of little moral difference. Nazi/Communism were state executed, Abortion is state sanctioned. There is no moral superiority of abortion over despotism when it comes to murder.

[Matchett-PI]

A "REFORMATION"??? Nooooooooo kidding. LOL. I wonder if he's advocating taking it all the way back to Augustine, the "Calvinist". LOL!!!

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Again, you are missing my point.  The article stated that we in the U.S., to date have killed far more than communism has.  This is patently false as I have stated before.

Also, as I have stated before, if you compare apples to apples, then you also have to throw in the abortions done by commies.  I don't have the figures, but I believe that the difference between the U.S. and the commies would be order of magnitude.

Merely pointing out the fact of the horrors of the truth of abortion in the U.S. is sufficient.  We don't need to also distort or lie about it as do our opponents.

[Palladin]

How about taking it all the way back to Jesus, and trying some "mere Christianity"?

[Diago]

Seems almost every time I go to confession, my penance is to read the Bible. I've been to several Catholic Bible studies, and I'm now helping conduct one.

Contrary to what folks think who, when they were Catholics took no initiative whatsoever, some Catholic DO read the Bible and ARE encouraged to do so. And it's not something recent--one of the best Catholic Bible study guidebooks was written in the 1920's--for laymen.

Any Catholic who attends Mass hears the Bible every time he attends. (I also studied the Bible in Catholic grade schools and high school.)

[Diago]

Hey Jacka$$, I am in line to adopt, jumping through all the little state hoops as we speak. Your attempt to defend the indefensible is astounding.

Best of Luck. And yes that other guy is a Jack$$.

[fatima]

Maybe for Father it was a few and for us it is long but it is funny.

[the_doc]

How about taking it all the way back to Jesus, and trying some "mere Christianity"?

That will work, too! The Lord's Own theology was obviously what later theologians would nickname "Calvinism." It is actually just Biblical Christianity.

The Lord's theology got nicknamed "Calvinism" only because it was Calvin who, of all the theologians in history, seemed to have most clearly noticed the systematic underpinnings of everything the Lord taught concerning salvation.

But Augustine understood these things pretty well, too! He was, like Calvin, an absolute, double predestinarian. Most RCs don't realize that (because they have been taught that absolute predestination is an awful doctrine invented by Calvin and the other Reformers). But it is easy to demonstrate from Augustine's own writings that Augustine was an absolute, double predestinarian.

(This was Matchett's point. The theology of God's absolute sovereignty, so eloquently argued by Calvin and Luther [both of whom repeatedly cited the Scriptures, and even more embarrassinly for the RCC, Augustine himself] was the pivotal theology of the Reformation. All the controversies in the Reformation ultimately turned on the Biblical doctrine of predestination.)

My bottom-line point is that I agree that the RCC does need another Reformation.

[the_doc]

I forgot to add that I think that today's Protestant movement needs another Reformation, too!

I don't think we will have "Jesus's mere Christianity" unless we start paying attention to His astonishing teachings concerning the absolute sovereignty of God!

[Cicero5]

I read all of the posts...am a Roman Catholic, and here it is in a nutshell folks... Christianity is bigger than the Catholic Church. Sorry if that offends anyone.

[the_doc]

I certainly agree with that. I would even go so far as to say that Christianity is much, much bigger than the RCC.

But there is still only One Mediator between God and men.

[Cicero5]

It really does help to remind yourself of that once in while. It is easy to get caught up in the ritual and rules of the church (never miss mass, go to confession if you do, etc)... and really believe that you are living as you should. There is so much more and we often lose sight of it.