If Palestinian tactic succeeds, it will spread

Mpls (red)Star Tribune / New York Times ^ | 4/2/02 | Thomas L. Friedman

[LJLucido]

Oh, I don't doubt that suicide bombers could wreak havoc (although I agree with the poster who said the vigilantes would quickly swing into action in response). I just don't believe that this population is fertile ground for enough suicide bombers to make a difference. The illegals are known for persistence, but not fanaticism. It takes an mind-altering religion like Islam to create those conditions. Roman Catholics are not known for such extremism.

[gridlock]

The talks were not 90% of the way to the ultimate Palestinian goal. They were still very far away from the complete destruction of Israel. Accepting a independent state alongside Israel would have compromised their moral authority, such as it is, and would have made the final achievement of this goal much more difficult. The Pallies will never accept a state alongside Israel, because this is not what they really want.

[Oldeconomybuyer]

I agree. The Palestinians are nothing more than cannon fodder for Arabs and their "leaders" around the world.

[Valin]

Ah, ok. You could say the samething about many other civ. throughout history.

[carton253]

You know... when Natanyahu was Prime Minister, Arafat pretty much towed the line because he knew that not only did Natanyahu have a big stick, he wasn't afraid to use it, and he didn't really care what the rest of the world thought.

Sharon needs to realize that he will never be the most popular girl at the dance and not base the defense of your people on what France writes in their editorials. Go, defend your country Mr. Sharon. Don't call ahead of time and warn the Palestinians there will be bombings. Don't try to explain and excuse your actions. The Arabs will respect you when you win. There can only be one rule in war... WIN! (and forget about the PR game, you can't win it anyway)

[Valin]

The only way you can win a war like this, is not one terrorist at a time but, by initiating pain upon the populous from whom the Suicide bombers are supposed to represent.
While I support what the Israelis are doing in their war for their survival, we must understand that in the short run they are creating even more suicide bombers. I hope you're not sugeting that the Israelis comment genocide, nothing good can come from going down that road. One of the things that must be done is to findout who's backing hamas etc. and deal with them(I'm thinking something along the lines of a 7.62 enema)

Japan was not dealt with one Kamakazi at a time. Sadly the populous was bombed into an awakening and they quickly learned the pain and suffering was not worth them supporting terror or the Kamakazi pilots.
True but in that case we were dealing with a nation state, their really is no palestinian nation state to deal with.

[mewzilla]

We may not even be dealing with the Palestinians. I wonder if countries like Iran and Iraq aren't calling the shots here in order to try to avert an attack on Iraq or Iran. If so, not only do I think it won't work, the Palestinian people really are chumps for allowing themselves to be used and abused like this.

Forget Israel and the West. They're their own worst enemy.

[carton253]

their really is no palestinian nation state to deal with.

Because the Arabs keep turning down the opportunity to make one. First in 1948, they said no to a Palestine and instead turned to war to remove the Jews from Israel.

Then again in 2000, when Barak gave Arafat everything he wanted but two things... the right of return and the dismantling of Israel.

I think you are right. Everytime Israel goes into the West Bank, the Palestinians strap on new bombs and walk into Haifa or Jerusalem.

That's why this game has to end. Either give the Palestinians what they want, or defeat them once and for all.

[Ancesthntr]

They [the Palestinians] do not want an independent state alongside Israel. They want Israel. Any plan that does not recognize this basic fact is fantasy and doomed to failure.

This bears repeating.

Before the creation of Israel the pre-Israeli leadership offered the Arabs (NOT Palestinians, there was and is no such distinct people) living in the area a joint state, in which Arab and Jew would live in peace. This idea was rejected, repeatedly. The Arab world demonstrated its unwillingness to accept even the existence of Israel, no matter what its borders, when the armies of 5 nations invaded in 1948. In 1967, the Israelis offered to give back all lands captured in the Six Day War, in return for peace. This offer, totally unprecedented in world history (what conquerer has ever given up land for peace with a defeated enemy?), was catagorically rejected. Finally, Arafat and the PA rejected a state with 96% of the land area that they had asked for.

Whoever cannot see that the "Palestinians" and the various Arab states don't want a 22nd Arab state, unless such a state is combined with the destruction of Israel, is either blind or in the same camp as the radical Arabs.

[tet68]

The Pallies will never accept a state alongside Israel, because this is not what they really want.

And in fact it would not be in their interest as then any retaliatory action by Israel would then be State to State, and a matter of national defense instead of "the oppression of a "people"".

[Valin]

We may not even be dealing with the Palestinians. I wonder if countries like Iran and Iraq aren't calling the shots here in order to try to avert an attack on Iraq or Iran.

Good point, they are also using the palestinians to legitimize their own rule, ie. freedom of the press no no we can't let you have that we're in a war with Israel, the same could be said for anyother freedom you care to mention. With the palestinians what we're seeing is a group that can't see beyond their hate. It's an almost classic case of cutting thier nose to spite their face.

[carton253]

Great analysis!

To Arafat, it has never been about a separate state. The Arabs want the Jews gone. Period! Into the sea or into the ovens... (I read that in an editorial this morning) and the Palestinians are the hammer the Arabs use to see that this policy is done.

The message Palestinian terrorists are sending to Israel is clear. We will murder you at every opportunity, in every place, at any time. Why should Israel stand for that? Why should Israel have to wring its hand and ask the world's permission to defend itself?

Because the "world" (in the largest, broadest sense) wants the destruction of Israel too.

Israel, no matter how strong a military they have, cannot fight the whole world. They will need us, and I think that is part of Powell's desperate dance of words.

[William Terrell]

Ah, ok. You could say the samething about many other civ. throughout history.

If you can, that supports my challenge to the original article statement. Individuals with little or no respect for human life can be found in any civilization. Japan's entire civilization was based on it.

[Valin]

Individuals with little or no respect for human life can be found in any civilization.
The very idea of the sacredness of life is something spread by judeo-christian thought. Until Paul and the rest of the gang started to spread the goodnews to the world the very idea of the intrinsic worth of all human life was completely alien to the ancient world.

Japan's entire civilization was based on it.
Really?

[chachacha]

True but in that case we were dealing with a nation state, their really is no palestinian nation state to deal with.

I'm not one to be PC. I know the race, religion, region. That's all I need. I also read that piece of S--t they call a bible.

Although we knew the State of Japan, we didn't discriminate or act PC toward who got hit on the head with the bomb.

I bet even you could find those that support this terror. Hint

They surround Israel and they are on the other side of the world near where the LORD will eventually return to do what we failed to do and the Jews failed to do thousands of years ago.

[StriperSniper]

not base the defense of your people on what France writes in their editorials.

Heh, Heh, I like that. :-)

[VOA]

bump

[William Terrell]

One word, "bushido". This post has a poem that exemplifies the core attitude of medieval Japan. There are credible arguments that they've not really changed to date.