Replies

Ref your #11, last paragraph:

Will and Ariel Durant, in their eleven volume history of western European history state that, in the Middle Ages the Pope decreed that priests should be celibate.

One of the reasons given was that priests, bishops, archbishops, etc, were collecting unto themselves a lot of real estate and riches. These Churchmen passed this wealth on to their offspring as was the custom, thus denying it to the Catholic Church.

The Church wanted to control the production of wealth, thus the Pope stated that priests should be celibate and thus the Church would assume control of the means producing wealth.

I'm a Protestant. The above is not an anti-Catholic rant. It is a statement of what some historians have stated concerning the idea of priestly celibacy. If what the Durants say is true, it seems to me that if the Pope says something is so, then he can also say that it is "un-so".

Is the Pope or the Church afraid to say "we've made a mistake"?

OK, in the past I've had Jews call me an antisemite (not true) so now I guess Catholics will call me antiCatholic (also not true).

I've said what appears to me to be truth, like it or not.

It is a statement of what some historians have stated concerning the idea of priestly celibacy. If what the Durants say is true, it seems to me that if the Pope says something is so, then he can also say that it is "un-so".

Will Durant is very far from balanced in his view of the Church. The real origin of priestly celibacy is far more complex and nuanced (and *older*) than he admits. As a counterbalance, I'm told that a good book is Christian Conchini, SJ's Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy. (I haven't read it.)

What you say is true, that celibacy is a discipline that could be ended by papal edict. However, there are many good reasons for keeping it.

One of the reasons given was that priests, bishops, archbishops, etc, were collecting unto themselves a lot of real estate and riches. These Churchmen passed this wealth on to their offspring as was the custom, thus denying it to the Catholic Church.

The Church wanted to control the production of wealth, thus the Pope stated that priests should be celibate and thus the Church would assume control of the means producing wealth.

I've seen this posted by others on FR and it is nonsense. Try this webpage by Fr. Anthony Zimmerman, STD: Celibacy dates back to the Apostles for an accurate, well-developed discussion of the history of celibacy in the Catholic Church.

"...now I guess Catholics will call me antiCatholic (also not true)."

Are you aware of the difference between the Roman Catholic Church, and the catholic church?

ALL regenerate Christians are saints and as such are members of the universal (catholic) church.

You can count me as anti-Romish doctrine. This is why:

"Romanism especially does not thrive in a republic, but there Calvinism finds itself most at home. An aristocratic form of church government tends toward monarchy in civil affairs, while a republican form of church government tends toward democracy in civil affairs. Says McFetridge, "Arminianism is unfavorable to civil liberty, and Calvinism is unfavorable to despotism. The despotic rulers of former days were not slow to observe the correctness of these propositions, and, claiming the divine right of kings, feared Calvinism as republicanism itself."

Will and Ariel Durant, in their eleven volume history of western European history state that, in the Middle Ages the Pope decreed that priests should be celibate.

The discipline of celibacy predates Pope Gregory VII and the Roman Synod in 1075 reaffirming it for priests. Many priests were celibate prior to that Synod. Do Will and Ariel bother to mention the concilar legislation of the Council of Elvira, canon xxxiii, dated 295-302 AD? Can Will and Ariel, or anyone else, show in Scripture where the Apostles weren't celibate?

Do Will and Ariel address Matthew 19:12, 26-29 or 1 Corinthians 7:7-8, 32-35?