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To: kattracks; rdf; WhiskeyPapa
"In Federalist Paper 45, Madison guaranteed: "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite."

Yes, Madison said that, and some may find ways of reading a right to unilateral secession into those words regardless of other evidence to the contrary. How come the apostles of dis union never quote these words from Madison?

I return my thanks for the copy of your late very powerful Speech in the Senate of the United S. It crushes "nullification" and must hasten the abandonment of "Secession." But this dodges the blow by confounding the claim to secede at will, with the right of seceding from intolerable oppression. The former answers itself, being a violation, without cause, of a faith solemnly pledged. The latter is another name only for revolution, about which there is no theoretic controversy.

Source: James Madison to Daniel Webster, 15 March, 1833

As to Northern politicians arguing for the right to unilateral secession in 1861, some very prominent Southern folks argued the opposite.

"Secession is nothing but revolution. The framers of our constitution never exhausted so much labor, wisdom, and forbearance in its formation, and surrounded it with so many guards and securities, if it was intended to be broken by every member of the Confederacy at will. It was intended for "perpetual union" so expressed in the preamble, and for the establishment of a government, not a compact, which can only be dissolved by revolution, or the consent of all the people in convention assembled. It is idle to talk of secession. Anarchy would have been established, and not a government, by Washington, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, and the other patriots of the Revolution."

Robert E. Lee, 23 January, 1861.

"The South seceded because of Washington's encroachment on that vision."

Exactly how was Washington ‘encroaching’ on the rights of the Southern States? Did South Carolina have a constitutional “right” to impose slavery on the people of Kansas? The only grievences mentioned in their resolutions of secession were slavery issues and the only question on slavery then was expansion!

The South wanted a Revolution so they could expand slavery. It was an economic necessity for them to continually expand slavery or they would be swamped with excess slaves and the value of their 'property' would colapse. They made very few bones about it at the time. Their revolution and that war was all about slavery. Williams should know better.

183 posted on 03/28/2002 2:50:20 PM PST by Ditto
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To: Ditto
It was an economic necessity for them to continually expand slavery or they would be swamped with excess slaves and the value of their 'property' would colapse

Of course that's just pure nonsense. The Confederate Constitution forbid the importation of anymore slaves. Zero Nada... But it was an economic necessity for the Northern states to contitune to collect the huge tariffs paid for by Southerners. That's why both houses of congress passed with the support of Lincoln the pro slavery amendment which guaranteed slavery forever.

185 posted on 03/28/2002 2:58:12 PM PST by VinnyTex
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