The Nazis weren't Christians.

Opinion Journal ^ | MONDAY, MARCH 25 | ROBERT L. BARTLEY

[Skooz]

Holy Week is by no means all sweetness and light. This Friday Christians mark the crucifixion, a terrible event redeemed by the resurrection three days later. The Jews gather on Thursday for Passover, celebrating the Exodus from slavery as the angel of death skipped Jewish homes during Egypt's tenth plague, the killing of the firstborn. So perhaps it's not an inappropriate time to discuss another terrible topic, the Holocaust, and in particular the divisive issue of Christian culpability in the Nazi genocide of the Jews. It is not the purpose here to dismiss the long history of anti-Semitism in Christian lands. By now most Christians agree this was a sin, and its legacy surely played an important role in laying a groundwork for the Nazis and in muting opposition to the "final solution."

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

[jboot]

Wow, I've never seen a casualty estimate for the holocaust that exceeds 12 million (and that is also probably an exaggeration). To get Hitler's kill count to 23 million, the author must be including Soviet combat casualties. Kinda shoddy work, IMHO.

[Ditto]

"Overall, by genocide, the killing of hostages, reprisal raids, forced labor, 'euthanasia,' starvation, exposure, medical experiments, terror bombing, and in the concentration and death camps, the Nazis murdered from about 15,000,000 to over 31,600,000 people, most likely closer to 21 million men, women, handicapped, aged, sick, prisoners of war, forced laborers, camp inmates, critics, homosexuals, Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Czechs, Italians, Poles, Frenchmen, Ukrainians, and so on. Among them were 1 million children under eighteen years of age."
-R.J. Rummel, Death by Government

Go to http://www.freedomsnest.com/rummel_nazi.html to see how he calculated the numbers. The big difference between your numbers and his is how many of the 12 million Russian civilian dead during WWII do you blame Hitler, and how many do you blame on Stalin.

[cynicom]

Romulus....

There are many facts or fiction that I no longer have tabs on to cite for anyone. We are all free to read and make our own opinions. You have yours and where you got your information is of no value to me. Demanding proof of all opinions is merely to sidestep the issue.

[Ditto]

Clinton's Nazi slur of Christianity show that his "instinctive grasp" and "breadth of understanding" are terribly overrated.

Quite the contrary. Clinton knows that the folks that run papers like the New York Times eat that anti-Christian stuff up like hungry little pigs. They can't get enough of it. Clinton always knows his audience and knows what they want to hear.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

There really ought to be some mention of the anti-Nazi "White Rose" underground and von Stauffenberg's and Adam von Trott's attempts to assassinate Hitler.

Catholics & Vatican Support Attempts to Overthrow Hitler, Relaying Intel to Brits. British Communist Homo Traitor Kim Philby Tries to Thwart Objectives (scroll down and click on "Vatican Connection")

[Romulus]

Thank you. We might also mention Pius XII's personal involvement as the go-between in the 1940 Officers' Plot to overthrow Hitler.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Or check out these rather interesting files:

Vatican's anti-Nazi Protests during World War II

[Sci Fi Guy]

were all of those that did the killing, Nazis, and thus non-christians? Where is the cutoff level for non-christians or were all of the millions of Germans caught up in that sad affair atheists???

I think a better term would be irreligious. Nations with state controlled churches tend to have dead churches. Plus Europe was affected by modernism a century before the US. So many if not the majority of churches were not pastored by traditional/conservative Christians. There simply wasn't millions of Christians in Germany. The Christians that were there formed "the confessing church" to oppose the nazi. Einstein praised their efforts, commenting that the greatest resistance came from the least expected source. Einstein had thought that the colleges, unions and press, would lead the opposition to Nazism.

[screed]

Check any mid-century almanac

Fresh out of German mid-century almanacs here. The reason I ask is, in the world of debate it is absolutely astonishing how many times people repeat things over and over again with no proof whatsoever. And then when it comes out that there is lots more opinion and conjecture than proof, the response is usally "Well, everyone knows THAT." I am not saying that no proof of your conjecture can be found. I am just trying to get to the facts, and nothing presents facts better than evidence. I am sure you understand.

But, to sum up, what you are saying is, you have no proof then.

[duvausa]

Don’t know if it’s relevant and of course this is purely anecdotal, but my father, who grew up in Holland in the 20s and 30s—always told me that Holland was roughly 1/3 Catholic, 1/3 Lutheran, 1/3 Socialist. His family was Socialist. They didn’t go to church. I’ll bet people who considered themselves National Socialists in Germany didn’t either.

[screed]

Anecdotal information from the folks who were actually there is always welcome, if not always reliable. At least by my way of thinking.

[Hajman]

Because some things are "self evident." The notion that Germany was, early in the 20th century, largely Christian is not really a point of contention.

If it wasn't a point of contention, we wouldn't be split up into two fairly large groups debating it.

What's also not really a point of contention is that the Judeo-Christian religions celebrate genocide (the Flood, Cananites, Jehovah murdering the firstborn children of Egypt, etc.), but that the old Norse religion does not.

No, what's not really a point of contention is that you love to mis-represent the Bible. But I digress.

-The Hajman-

[screed]

Because some things are "self evident." The notion that Germany was, early in the 20th century, largely Christian is not really a point of contention.

Sure it is. Because you still haven't made the tiniest effort to prove it. It shouldn't be hard if it is so self evident. And since your bigotry against Christianity has put you in the position of supporting his point. Let's not get off track. Go ahead and post some evidence of just HOW they (Christians specifically) carried out the Nazi plan and the causal link between Christianity and the criminal acts of Nazism. Thanks.

What's also not really a point of contention is that the Judeo-Christian religions celebrate genocide (the Flood, Cananites, Jehovah murdering the firstborn children of Egypt, etc.), but that the old Norse religion does not.

Of all the times I learned about these events, I never really celebrated them. Please leave your biased phraseology for someone else. And the Norse religion thing? Do you keep this stuff stored up? Because it is not possible for me to care less about Norse religion.

[Michael2001]

One could not be a Nazi and a Christian. Nazis were big on Jewish conspiracy theories, and claimed Christianity to be the biggest Jewish conspiracy of them all. But this doesn't stop the leftists from making the claim that they were Christian

[Ditto]

"...with number three being a guy who murdered millions for religious reasons.

You mean Adolph? He murdered far more Christians than Jews. The common thing between the dead Christians and the dead Jews was that they were both from 'races' that Hitler considered to be inferior.

Hitler was not a Christian, and religion did not drive him to genocide. His religious beliefs were about the same as the mother earth cults we have today.