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To: ijcr
Well, thanks for the lecture, ijcr. To summarize your post: history of marxism 101; the left are all marxists and changing the name will not change the ideology; it's all evil! In truth, it is not all about marxism and never has been. You may like it to be because that seems to be the only level upon which you can argue. The left comprises liberals, progressives, laborites, greens, social democrats, socialists, radicals, anarchists, marxists, communists, and more. Al Gore, Tony Blair, Ralph Nader, Michael Walzer, Noam Chomsky, Saul Alinsky, Albert Camus, Malraux, Sartre, Merleau-Ponty: all leftist and therefore all marxist? No, ijcr, just one more big lie. Your dichotomy is classic. If you want to understand your fallacy look up 'false dilemma'. I refuse to be drawn into false alternatives. The original point remains and it is exactly this: the left is in fact in the process of purging marxism, regulating it, to borrow a phrase, to the dustbin of history, where it will linger for centuries, isolated and irrelevant. William F. Buckley, no doubt one of your heroes, purged Birchism and the KKK from your table many decades ago. They still linger about, but they are no longer relevant to any serious discussion on the right and its future. Please, allow us to purge our own demons.
31 posted on 03/25/2002 11:22:00 AM PST by serune
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To: serune
Ah! the old hide the Dinosaur under the bed trick, the Catholic Church tried it and you can see the results.

Do any of these points fit your agenda?

" We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious ---- to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

We demand the abolition of the regular army

We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press.

We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the -------.

In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.

The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.

The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives."

As a betting man, I'd say you would approve 80-90%.

Was I wrong?

How thin is the barrier that seperates sanity from insanity? Those governments which have been the longest remembered in history are those that have inflicted the worst tortures, the foulest persecutions and the most hideous barbarisms on humanity,all in the interests of the people.

There is always the danger when one becomes enamoured of an idea or a philosophy that not only would it be nice for others to share it,it would be nicer if they could be forced to share it. This has led --------(fill in the blank with any name from your list,) astray in the past.

The section in quotes comes from a partial translation of the National Socialist German Workers Party, manifesto.

Munich,February 24, 1920. The Nazi's.

32 posted on 03/25/2002 10:11:27 PM PST by ijcr
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