Well just read what the poor confused woman writes:
As I have said, the true penitent hates sin, that is, his feelings toward sin are quite different from what they were in the past, he could commit sin almost without concern. People do not realize the great change that takes place in them in this matter. It occurs gradually. The very things that now cause them distress were practiced by them every day and gave no concern. There was no hatred of, no dread of sin. Still, hating sin is not being saved from it.Sin, I say, must be renounced. Here is a man who is daily addicted to drink, and who becomes convinced of sin. The Spirit of God says, "Will you give up the cup?" Then commences the struggle. Are you to tell that man that he may go on drinking, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved? Or are you to tell him "You must put away your sin, and renounce that drink for ever in your heart, in your purpose, in your will, because until you do you cannot exercise faith in the Lord Jesus?
I will tell any man that he CAN go on drinking and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. And I've known saved drunks. I've been a saved drunk. (And there have been times in my life, after salvation, when I've practically loved sin, and times I've committed sin practically without concern too! I'm not bragging, I'm stating a fact. Saved people have two natures, and the old nature still likes sin even after salvation!)
I've known saved smokers. And saved dancers. And saved people who watch TV and go to movies. And saved people who look at girls in bikinis. Or committed adultery, or fornication. David took a man's wife and had her husband killed. Calvin had a man burned at the stake. There is absolutely no requirement that a man must make himself worthy of salvation ("repent of his sins") before he can receive it. What a man is to repent of is UNBELIEF, and turn from it and invite Jesus Christ into his heart to save him. (And of course no man is going to do that unless he is convinced he's NOT saved, that he needs salvation, that he can't save himself, that salvation is by Jesus Christ, that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God and that He IS risen from the dead! Else he would not pray to ask Him into his heart!)
Paul said it oh-so-clearly. Jesus Christ came to save SINNERS. Not the "holy." We depend on Christ's righteousness which is imputed to us, not our own.
You ever hear the old invitation hymn, "JUST AS I AM . . "? How silly it would be to change the words to "JUST AS SOON AS I GET UP THE WILLPOWER TO TURN FROM DRINKING . . .".
Housecleaning, if any, is an evolving result, not a condition of salvation. And we won't ever be truly free of sin until we have a body free of the old sin nature.
As I said, that woman wrote ignorant nonsense.
I would not disagree with that. There are two natures in a saved man.(Rom.7) I think, however what she was saying has some validity. The person has to realize that he is a sinner. Ofcourse, no one can change until after he is saved but he has to want to be changed!
The point she was addressing was does one make a profession faith on the basis of a simple fact or does he make it after he is convicted that he is a sinner and needs a saviour.
I've known saved smokers. And saved dancers. And saved people who watch TV and go to movies. And saved people who look at girls in bikinis. Or committed adultery, or fornication. David took a man's wife and had her husband killed. Calvin had a man burned at the stake. There is absolutely no requirement that a man must make himself worthy of salvation ("repent of his sins") before he can receive it. What a man is to repent of is UNBELIEF, and turn from it and invite Jesus Christ into his heart to save him. (And of course no man is going to do that unless he is convinced he's NOT saved, that he needs salvation, that he can't save himself, that salvation is by Jesus Christ, that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God and that He IS risen from the dead! Else he would not pray to ask Him into his heart!)
I agree with your view on that issue. Let us look at the two statements that you posted by her,
As I have said, the true penitent hates sin, that is, his feelings toward sin are quite different from what they were in the past, he could commit sin almost without concern. People do not realize the great change that takes place in them in this matter. It occurs gradually. The very things that now cause them distress were practiced by them every day and gave no concern. There was no hatred of, no dread of sin. Still, hating sin is not being saved from it.I think this statement to be a good one. Sin should start making the believer uncomfortable so that he wants to change. Ofcourse, cleaning up your life is also not salvation.
Sin, I say, must be renounced. Here is a man who is daily addicted to drink, and who becomes convinced of sin. The Spirit of God says, "Will you give up the cup?" Then commences the struggle. Are you to tell that man that he may go on drinking, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved? Or are you to tell him "You must put away your sin, and renounce that drink for ever in your heart, in your purpose, in your will, because until you do you cannot exercise faith in the Lord Jesus?This I would agree to be false, since no one needs to be changed before he is saved. However, I think the question if raised would be that drinking is not the issue now, since you under the sin of Adam (Rom.3:23) and need to get under the blood of the 2nd Adam (Rom.5:15). However, I would also say that if saved a person will want to to stop drinking and become a better Christian. If they do not, might it be because they are not saved? Now, they might be but then again that struggle should be there.(James 1:22)
Paul said it oh-so-clearly. Jesus Christ came to save SINNERS. Not the "holy." We depend on Christ's righteousness which is imputed to us, not our own.
Amen
You ever hear the old invitation hymn, "JUST AS I AM . . "? How silly it would be to change the words to "JUST AS SOON AS I GET UP THE WILLPOWER TO TURN FROM DRINKING . . .". Housecleaning, if any, is an evolving result, not a condition of salvation. And we won't ever be truly free of sin until we have a body free of the old sin nature.
Amen!
As I said, that woman wrote ignorant nonsense.
Take a look at the points I was raising and let me know what you think. I agree with everything you are saying on the issue of the Gospel. I post the sermons to elict thought and discussion. It may be that this generation is not preaching about sin enough. All the great soul winners made sure people knew they were sinners and under conviction. Have we gone to far in one direction?
I've known saved smokers. And saved dancers. And saved people who watch TV and go to movies. And saved people who look at girls in bikinis. Or committed adultery, or fornication. David took a man's wife and had her husband killed. Calvin had a man burned at the stake.
Here is some more "ignorant" writing for you to criticize:
John 5:28&29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Gal. 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph. 5:1-6 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
1 Cor. 6:9&10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Matthew 12:34-37 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life.
Hank