Posted on 03/22/2002 3:06:59 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
I didn't say I was as good a prophet as you, only a minor one.
Hank
Rog is a kind hearted guy who persistently tries to do right. He told me that he's been praying for some time now for God to help him sleep and that he always goes right to sleep. His mother is a real oppressive negaholic whom Rog could never please. And his graphics, computer design profession also has tons of perfectionistic pressures. He's amazingly sane all things considered. But it's neat watching him learn to relate directly to Almighty God.
Comment on, maybe. Criticize? Never! "Ignorant" writing? Of course not!
John 5:28&29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Obviously Jesus is speaking of either (1.) a resurrection of people who died in an economy of works and not salvation by grace through faith, or (2.) the definition of "have done evil" in the context is NOT BELIEVING on the Son of God. See John chapter 3.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The context is the Great White Throne Judgment, which is the judgment of UNBELIEVERS. That has nothing to do with sinners saved through faith in Jesus Christ, upon whom "the second death hath no power" (Revelation 20:6).
No believer saved in this age is a "LIAR" even when he lies! It is not imputed to him (Romans 4: 7-8). If it was, everybody saved in this age -- everybody -- will end up in that lake.
But we won't end up there, thank God. For we have the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, and by the "circumcision made without hands" (Colossians 2:11) we are separated from the old body of sins, the flesh, and the sins it (the old nature) commits are not imputed to us. Though indulging the old nature can cost "INHERITANCE", it cannot cost us our salvation.
Gal. 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Read the context. Paul is admonishing saved believers to not act like those who are going to hell for such things. (Which brings up an obvious point -- why admonish the believers to not do them if, as a condition or prerequisite of salvation, they had already stopped doing them?) The epistles to the Corinthians contain the same sort of thing -- Paul encouraging them not to do the things that unbelievers -- who are yet in their sins -- have the wrath of God still on their heads for!
Eph. 5:1-6 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
The children of light, in contrast, covered by the blood, are passed from wrath unto light, into the love and acceptance of God through Jesus Christ. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from ALL sin (1 John 1:7).
And notice what Paul is talking about -- INHERITANCE. Not whether or not one is saved, or loved, or in the family of God. He's not talking about a condition or prerequisite of salvation. He's talking about reward when you get to heaven, not whether or not a saved believer will get there.
1 Cor. 6:9&10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Remember that Paul is writing to the SAVED. He is stating that, by contrast, the UNBELIEVERS (unrighteous because they have not the righteousness of CHRIST imputed to them) will not inherit the kingdom of God. We KNOW that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6) and so cannot save us -- even if we observed and kept ALL THE LAW PERFECTLY.
Paul goes on to say in verse 12 that, yes, indeed, he agrees that "all things are lawful" to the believer -- you (the born again believer) won't lose your salvation of get damned for anything, but, he says, that "all things are not expedient"! He is encouraging them to behave and live in the manner of the person whom God through Christ has made them in Him -- a member of Christ, the temple of the Holy Ghost, washed, sanctified and justified by and through him!
And he wouldn't be exhorting them in the first place if these saved believers were doing it! They weren't. They were still sinning! Obviously "NOT sinning" was not a condition of their salvation.
Matthew 12:34-37 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
You do know there are at least two judgments? Three, if you count the Judgment of the Nations. The first will be the Judgment Seat of Christ, the judgment of believers saved in this age. It will be a judgment to determine INHERITANCE - reward - not whether a person will go into heaven or not. Because that's already settled and sure for the believer in Christ who is saved by grace through faith in Him.
In the passage you cite Jesus is speaking of a judgment where men will be judged on their WORKS. And at this judgment men will be CONDEMNED -- by their very words.
This is the judgment that every unbeliever believes in and is working toward. It is the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20.
Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life.
What a remarkable verse to choose to close with! Here is a picture of people strengthened to not return from their wicked way -- UNBELIEF -- because they've been promised LIFE. They believe (have been "promised") they can do enough "good works" (or just "care" enough or have enough "good intentions") to "cover" all the bad, and that they'll make it through the Great White Throne Judgment.
But what does Jesus say? Jesus says, "Ye must be born again."
And it's so simple. "For God so loved the world" that He made it simple. All it takes is to ask!
John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
Luke 11:10 "For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."
It is that simple. And that wonderful.
But, I am guessing from what you said, that you do not believe sinners are cleansed from sin, but only the consequences of sin. I mean, you do not believe the blood of Jesus Christ is able to make men new creatures, who have ceased from sin, (I Pet. 4:1) but keep on sinning and are only relieved from the consequences of sin, (i.e. eternal damnation). Please comment.
Hank
Of course I believe Jesus Christ makes men into new creatures (2 Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 6:15). New creatures who, while on this earth, have two natures.
In God's eyes believers are cleansed from sin and pronounced righteous.
The believer in Christ receives a new nature which cannot and does not sin. But he still has an old nature which can and does sin. Notice that John says "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God" in 1st John 3:9, yet this is the same man who wrote just two chapters earlier "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
Paul wrestles with the two nature issue in Romans chapter 7.
Real victory over the dominion of sin in anyone's life is by Jesus Christ. (I'm not talking about achieving perfection -- we rely on Christ's righteousness, not our own. I'm talking about victory over the dominance of sin -- Romans 6:14.)
So making "turning from sin" -- which is, by the way, just another way of saying KEEPING THE LAW -- a condition or prerequisite of salvation is (1.) not only putting the cart before the horse, (2.) it is a complete impossibility to achieve perfectly in this body while still subject to the influences and weaknesses of the flesh. The Bible calls it "madness" to try attaining that, and I'll show you where it says that in a moment. I'll give two examples to illustrate these two points.
The first one we'll talk about drunks, because the woman who wrote the article brought it up. A drunk has a lot better chance, more strength to give up drinking AFTER he's received Jesus Christ as Saviour, as he's begun to take hold of assurance that his sins, all of them, whatever they may be, ARE forgiven; that, in confidence in the finished work of the blood atonement of Jesus Christ, God is for him and he is accepted and loved; that he is NOT under the pressures of perfectionism and constant demands of performance with attendent unrelenting criticism and disapproval, for the law has been taken away (Colossians 2: 13-14) through Christ; and that God, who IS love, due to the all-sufficent atonement of Jesus Christ, is not "out to get him" if he messes up, for acceptance isn't by being "perfect", but simply by FAITH.
I'd say a drunk has a lot less chance when, as a prerequisite or condition of salvation, he must give up drinking -- and that's even before has any strength and power from Christ and the truth of God's love in him to do so. There are many drunks who have tried repeatedly to quit on their own, and have failed. To tell them that turning from it is a prerequisite or condition of salvation is like simply telling them outright, "You can't be saved." And that, of course, is a lie.
The second example is the Bible account of Balaam.
While we are yet in these corrupt bodies with our fallen natures, we are still subject to sin. So as believers we rely entirely on the imputed righteousness of Christ. If we pursue perfection, we very well find ourselves on Balaam's road (Numbers 22), driving and beating and whipping ourselves into straiter and straiter stricture, until the very beast on which we ride (ourselves) finally breaks down in resistance to our "madness" in seeking impossible angelic perfection. Of course the intent of any who travel that road is to reach a place of personal perfection where they don't need to rely on Jesus Christ's imputed righteousness any longer, thinking they have attained their own righteousness, their own perfection. It's at this point one would think to tell Jesus to "jump in the lake," for His righteousness isn't needed any longer. And it's pretty clear what "lake" that old saying refers to. And that is, in a picture, what Balaam intended to do -- he was on his way to cursing Israel, the nation through whom the Saviour would be given.
And this -- this drive to personal perfection, self righteousness -- is what is referred to in 2 Peter 2:16 as "madness" -- "the madness of the prophet". The sought-after wages or "reward" of Balaam were praise and glory and honor for self (Numbers 22:17).
I will close this by saying that the believer who receives Jesus Christ as his Saviour does repent of his SIN and turn from it IN THE VERY ACT of inviting Jesus Christ into his heart to save him. I'm talking about the very FIRST sin, Adamic sin, the bottom line, original sin -- that of disbelieving God's WORD, denying life to himself and separating himself from God. These were the original sins in the garden of Eden.
When any man, woman, boy or girl invites Jesus Christ into his or her heart to save them, they first of all have believed God (reversing the decision to disbelieve God and accept the serpent's lie -- Genesis 3), they have restored LIFE to themselves (which they, in Adam, robbed from themselves in sinning and going under the knowledge of good and evil), and have restored fellowship with God which was lost when they sinned and hid themselves from God among the trees (they have returned God's beloved creature to God, so to speak).
Not only that they have admitted that they themselves are the sinner and in need of salvation (or else they wouldn't have asked for it), which means they have repented of pretending that they didnt do it (that only the "bad them" did it and they are commanding "good works" to make up -- "cover" themselves -- for it). And they are repenting of commanding endless works from themselves and of working for life, for salvation -- the old "religion" -- and are instead simply asking for it, receiving it. They are putting away -- abandoning -- the old belief that salvation is by and can be gained by works, simply by, instead, asking for it.
If you can receive it, they are repenting of SIN in this sense -- In the sense of WHAT SIN DID IN THE GARDEN, the VERY FIRST SIN, the sin from which all sin descended:
Rom 7:11 "For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."
Jesus Christ takes away the commandment, and the sin that took occasion by the commandment is directly dealt with. The power of sin is spoiled -- in the taking away of the commandment, and the washing away of sins.
There is cataclysmic import in the simple, little, easy prayer that anyone can pray. It is the difference between reversing the Adamic choice, or remaining unrepentant. That simple little prayer that goes:
Lord Jesus, be merciful to me a sinner. I believe you are the Christ, the Son of God, that you died for my sins, and that you rose again the third day. I ask you to save me. I invite you into my heart. I receive you as my Saviour and Lord. In the name of Jesus I ask, Amen!
And that is all there is to it! God takes it from there. Anyone who prays that prayer and means it is born again and in the family of God! And they didn't have to repent of a single sin in advance to do it. For anyone who prays that prayer and means it is repenting of "SIN" when they do it!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.