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Dismantling sought of Cuban embargo - on ''a collision course'' with the White House
Miami Herald ^ | March 22, 2002 | TIM JOHNSON tjohnson@krwashington.com

Posted on 03/22/2002 2:25:40 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

WASHINGTON - An unusually diverse and bipartisan group of 34 legislators on Thursday announced that they had formed a congressional bloc to seek step-by-step loosening of the trade embargo of Cuba and permit U.S. citizens to travel to the island.

''We all agree that the current policy has failed,'' said Rep. Jeff Flake, an Arizona Republican and ardent free-trade proponent who is a leader of the bloc.

The group's members asserted that the four-decade-old embargo is a relic of the Cold War. They said the Bush administration should abandon attempts to isolate the Fidel Castro regime in favor of the openness it shows toward communist regimes in China and Vietnam.

Creation of the bloc foreshadows a showdown between Congress and the Bush administration this spring over policy toward Cuba. The White House, eager to please Cuban-American voters in Florida who play an outsized role in national politics, plans soon to announce moves to tighten the embargo. An increasingly significant number of legislators, in contrast, say heartland farm interests are hurt by the embargo, and that many U.S. citizens oppose current policy.

'FEW' IN FLORIDA

''Most people in America think we should change our policy. It's a few people in Florida who do not,'' said Rep. Tim Roemer, an Indiana Democrat.

Leaders of the group, comprised of 17 Democrats and 17 Republicans, said they would seek freedom for U.S. citizens to travel to Cuba, and to allow U.S. companies to sell agricultural goods to the island on credit. The bloc may also seek greater counter-drug cooperation with Cuba, which straddles sea lanes from South America.

Castro, one of the world's last stalwart communists, has ruled through eight U.S. presidents since taking power in 1959. At 75, he still firmly controls the island.

Flake, a member of the House International Relations Committee, said the U.S. government should stop levying fines against U.S. citizens traveling to Cuba.

''This is an issue of freedom,'' Flake said. ``Every citizen ought to have the right to see firsthand what a mess that man has made of that island.''

GAINING STEAM

Moves in Congress to relax the travel ban have gained steam. Last year, legislators voted 240-186 to stop enforcing the ban, but action was later derailed by the Republican House leadership working with the White House.

'It's rather ironic that Americans today can travel to Iran, can travel to North Korea. By my calculations, that's two-thirds of the `axis of evil,' '' said Rep. William Delahunt, a Massachusetts Democrat who is a leader of the bloc, referring to President Bush's remarks in January about nations that sponsor terrorism. Bush also fingered Iraq.

A conservative Republican from Washington state, Rep. George Nethercutt, said the legislators are not blind to the kind of regime Castro leads.

But Nethercutt said U.S. farmers are losing out on a $1 billion agricultural market with the boycott.

An advisor to the legislative bloc, Philip Peters of the Lexington Institute, a policy research group in Arlington, Va., said Congress and the White House are on ''a collision course'' over the direction of Cuban policy.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bush; castro; communism; loans; trade
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To: ContemptofCourt
By the way, that's "pound the table."
41 posted on 03/22/2002 11:13:23 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I read the arguments at the link, and they only serve to strengthen my position. The embargo is bogus, and hypocritical.

And please do not tell me how to do my job...;)

42 posted on 03/22/2002 11:26:46 AM PST by ContemptofCourt
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To: ContemptofCourt
I read the arguments at the link, and they only serve to strengthen my position. The embargo is bogus, and hypocritical.

You pretty funny. As you'd have seen if you'd gone there, the arguments overwhelmed the people who think like you and they left the thread.

43 posted on 03/22/2002 11:37:37 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: reagan_fanatic
You mantain that "The only way to bring down Castro and the communist government there is to do away with the embargo entirely. Castro has used this embargo as a tool for years to prop up his corrupt regime and stay in power."

You show extreme naiveté and ignorance about dealing with a brutal Stalinist regime like Castro’s. You want to award Castro to the tune of 6 to 8 billion dollars of American taxpayers money in subsidies every year, something already tried before by the Soviet Union, Mexico, Spain, Canada, the European Union and 150 other countries stupid enough to trust a masterful crook ad Fidel Castro.

The only positive legacy of Castro’s is that he heavily contributed to the demise of the Soviet Union, to keep Castro in power was to much of a drain for the Soviet Union’s economy-Castro bankrupted the “evil empire.”

What miraculous power have the American taxpayers money that it mere presence in Cuba would do away with the Castro’s regime? Castro is among the richest chief of state in the world, according to Forbes magazine. Why should the American taxpayers finance and enrich even more a terrorist who has pledged to destroy our country? Appeasement with evil is always a losing proposition.

Castro has defaulted in all his international debts, his credit is nil, why should we sell anything to him on credit without any expectation of going to be paid back. We are in a war against terrorism and those in the Congress who under false pretense are trying to help the Cuban regimen are bordering in treason.

44 posted on 03/22/2002 11:46:22 AM PST by Cardenas
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To: Cincinatus' Wife ; Uncle Fud
Either you're for or against an embargo of both Cuba and China. Any other view is hypocritical.

I for one am against any embargo against any country. They simply do not work.

45 posted on 03/22/2002 11:54:35 AM PST by GuillermoX
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To: GuillermoX
Either you're for or against an embargo of both Cuba and China. Any other view is hypocritical.

You lost that argument over here.

46 posted on 03/22/2002 11:57:59 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cardenas
Spot on, as usual.
47 posted on 03/22/2002 12:00:05 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cardenas
Who says "lifting the embargo equals loaning Castro money"?

They are not mutually inclusive.

48 posted on 03/22/2002 12:00:50 PM PST by GuillermoX
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I don't believe that question was even addressed on that thread. I asked it directly more than once, if I remember correctly, and it wasn't answered.
49 posted on 03/22/2002 12:15:53 PM PST by GuillermoX
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To: GuillermoX
You're manner of switching everything around is nonproductive and tiresome.
50 posted on 03/22/2002 12:21:17 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Maybe you can give a straight answer to this easy question (which was never answered on the other thread):

How is the policy of having an embargo against Cuba and not having one against China consistent?

51 posted on 03/22/2002 12:26:07 PM PST by GuillermoX
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
They left the thread because you are not answering any questions, you just keep saying "Castro is bad, thus we need an embargo."
52 posted on 03/22/2002 12:35:54 PM PST by ContemptofCourt
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
'It's rather ironic that Americans today can travel to Iran, can travel to North Korea. By my calculations, that's two-thirds of the `axis of evil,' ''
53 posted on 03/22/2002 12:37:45 PM PST by ContemptofCourt
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To: GuillermoX
Lifting the embargo entitles the opening for Castro the World Bank and other international and American financial institutions. These institutions are mainly financed by American taxpayers' money. Even American pro-Castro politicians in the Congress are already openly and unashamedly asking for the American's Banks to finance Castro's purchases, naturally, in the end are the American taxpayers who will end footing the bill. This is just a scam by unscrupulous multinational corporations and American politicians in cahoots with the Cuban regime. As Senator Helms referring to those in Congress pushing for the end of the embargo, at least, should not misrepresent their intentions. When you give American taxpayers’ money to Castro that will not bring freedom and democracy to Cuba, just the opposite, it will delay the end of the Cuban bloody regime.
54 posted on 03/22/2002 12:38:04 PM PST by Cardenas
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To: GuillermoX
Guillermo you have been long enough to now why? Go to Senator Jesse Helms’ clear answer to your question. On his address to the Senate Helms on "Why on Trade, Cuba is not China?" debunked the arguments of those who want to compare both regimes. China abandoned the Stalinist and Maoist scheme long ago and, although still a communist regime, there has been substantial changes in China since the Mao's Cultural Revolution. Cuba is frozen in time in a brutal and bloody Stalinist scheme without any hope for meaningful changes.
55 posted on 03/22/2002 12:50:14 PM PST by Cardenas
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To: GuillermoX
How is the policy of having an embargo against Cuba and not having one against China consistent?

Let's see, They're both communist countries. Chinese companies trade with all the world and all the world trades with China. Castro can trade with just about all the world but the world doesn't want to trade with Castro anymore without a guarantee of payment from a third party. China is a superpower and Cuba is 90 miles off our shore and supports terrorists at home and around the world. China has a growing middle class and a growing market economy. Castro is one of the richest men in the world and pays workers in pesos. Restricting trade with Castro is a profound statement against slavery in our hemisphere and of our commitment to oppressed people around the world. An embargo on China would be teasing a powerful enemy to no purpose. Chinese are extremely nationalistic, Cubans aren't. It's like comparing apples and oranges. There aren't enough consistencies between these two countries to draw a simple comparison. Castro will not help his people out of poverty, he's a tyrant and their desperation is his heel on their thoats. We can do something about that and Otto Reich is reviewing our entire policy toward Castro. The Chinese can step back and take in and guage our mood and act accordingly. Would embracing Castro and communism by lifting trade restrictions help the Chinese or hurt them, or would it make no difference? Do you really care?

China: SORRY STATE (Communist, Nationalist, and Dangerous)-- [Excerpt] This psychopathological aspect of Chinese nationalism was on display in the Hainan affair. Chinese e-mail forums buzzed with demands for the captured U.S. servicemen to be beaten, or sentenced to life imprisonment. Years of relentless propaganda about historical grievances, real and imagined, and the need to restore ancient glories, have created a febrile atmosphere of hyperpatriotic agitation to which it is hard to think of any Western parallel other than the banal and obvious ones of early-20th century fascism.

…… We simply have no leverage here. It is no use trying to pretend that this is the face-saving ideology of a small leadership group, forced on an unwilling populace at gunpoint. The Chinese people respond eagerly to these ultra-nationalist appeals: That is precisely why the leadership makes them. Resentment of the U.S., and a determination to enforce Chinese hegemony in Asia, are well-nigh universal among modern mainland Chinese. These emotions trump any desire for constitutional government, however much people dislike the current regime for its corruption and incompetence. Find a mainlander, preferably one under the age of thirty, and ask him which of the following he would prefer: for the Communists to stay in power indefinitely, unreformed, but in full control of the "three T's" (Tibet, Turkestan, Taiwan); or a democratic, constitutional government without the three T's. His answer will depress you. You can even try this unhappy little experiment with dissidents: same answer. [End Excerpt]

U.S. policy on Cuba to receive full review [Excerpt] The Bush administration has ordered what it calls the first comprehensive review of U.S. policy on Cuba in several years in an effort to find more effective ways to bring about democratic changes on the island, senior administration officials say. Otto J. Reich, the Cuban-born top State Department official in charge of Latin American affairs, said in a telephone interview that he has ordered a review of all areas of the policy, including the four-decades-old U.S. trade sanctions on the communist-ruled island. The review is scheduled to be completed within weeks, he said.

While not ruling out any outcome, Reich said the administration is seeking to make the policy more effective and thus is not likely to loosen the embargo -- a position that would have Congress and the White House headed in opposite directions.

…………. Reich, who will be officially sworn in Monday as assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, said one area of innovation may be greater support for civil society groups in Cuba. Other U.S. officials say this may include support for human rights activists who are deemed ''traitors'' by the Cuban government.

The officials say they are considering ways to overcome the Cuban government's jamming of the U.S.-financed Radio and TV Martí, and new rules to limit travel by Cuban diplomats in the United States. ''We are going to review the whole thing,'' Reich said. ``The problem is that we have relied entirely on one component of the policy, the embargo.''

He added that U.S. foreign policy has a variety of tools at its disposal, including ''political, economic, diplomatic, informational and military components,'' and that some of these may be employed. Asked specifically about the trade sanctions, Reich said that ``we are taking a closer look at the efficiency of our economic sanctions. I don't think we are going to loosen them. Unless we have changes in Cuba, we are not.'' [End Excerpts]

56 posted on 03/22/2002 1:26:14 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: ContemptofCourt
They left the thread because you are not answering any questions, you just keep saying "Castro is bad, thus we need an embargo."

Why don't you grow up and learn how to tell the truth.

57 posted on 03/22/2002 1:27:19 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cardenas
Bump!
58 posted on 03/22/2002 1:39:30 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Great Post! We should keep in mind that nations have not permanent friends or permanent enemies. Reagan strong polices towards the Soviet Union, not appeasement, were responsible for the demise of the imperial communist superpower. After War World II, Japan and Germany became one our strongest allies. History repeats itself, today, Putin, seems to be a reliable friend of the United States. Castro is a sociopath with an unrelenting hate against de U.S. The U.S. State Department has recognized Cuba between the main sponsors of international terrorism and the alliance of Castro with the “axis of evil” was reaffirmed last May during his peregrination through the headquarters of the terror network, Iraq, Iran and Libya. Why all this enthusiasm in trading with the enemy when Castro is an important pillar in the terror network that hit us with so much devastation on 9/11?
59 posted on 03/22/2002 2:09:39 PM PST by Cardenas
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Great Post! We should keep in mind that nations have not permanent friends or permanent enemies. Reagan strong polices towards the Soviet Union, not appeasement, were responsible for the demise of the imperial communist superpower. After War World II, Japan and Germany became one our strongest allies. History repeats itself, today, Putin, seems to be a reliable friend of the United States. Castro is a sociopath with an unrelenting hate against de U.S. The U.S. State Department has recognized Cuba between the main sponsors of international terrorism and the alliance of Castro with the “axis of evil” was reaffirmed last May during his peregrination through the headquarters of the terror network, Iraq, Iran and Libya. Why all this enthusiasm in trading with the enemy when Castro is an important pillar in the terror network that hit us with so much devastation on 9/11?
60 posted on 03/22/2002 2:14:16 PM PST by Cardenas
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