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To: kidd
The American presence in Europe in WWI caused WWII?

I'm not sure that this was the assertion. However, it was Churchill himself that said if it weren't for our involvement in WWI and the Treaty of Versailles, Hitler would never have come to power. And he is not the only one to have mentioned that fact. WWII was predicted by an English economist who said that if Versailles was enforced, it would bring about another war. He was absolutely correct and WWII was precipitated by the French marching into Germany in order to physically demand payments that were impossible for the Germans to make.

The invasion of France by Hitler was a direct retribution for that act. Perhaps it is you who needs to come to grips with the actual historical record rather than your imigination.

23 posted on 03/19/2002 11:36:38 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
Reply #21: (its Somalia, not Somolia)I've never agreed that this was the right use of the military. This article is crapola because it gets the history wrong: "President Clinton ordered them to help feed people who were starving to death in that country" is wrong. Bush Sr made this order. And this first phase of the Somalian operation went smoothly. Then Clinton came into office and engaged the military in nation building. During this second phase is when most of the American lives were lost. I don't believe that either Phase I or II use of the military was right. The article just gets its history wrong - thats why its garbage: revisionism as an attack on the military at the same time trying to (incorrectly) portray Clinton as a hero.

Reply #22: Who were we saved from? Duh.

Reply #23: What assertion? The article directly states: U.S. intervention in World War I actually contributed to the conditions of chaos and instability that gave rise to Adolf Hitler and World War II as well as to the rise of the Soviet Union and the threat of international communism. US intervention ended a stalemate that had been going on for three years. In that sense, the US ended the ongoing "chaos and instability". It was a lack of US involvement, and European "ostrich-diplomacy" that led to WWII. The Russian revolution took place two months before the United States declared war, so communism was already on the rise. This article is revisionist garbage.

32 posted on 03/19/2002 12:27:28 PM PST by kidd
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To: Demidog
The invasion of France by Hitler was a direct retribution for that act. Perhaps it is you who needs to come to grips with the actual historical record rather than your imigination.

Wrong. The invasion of France was because the French and British declared war on Germany as a direct result of Hitler's invasion of Poland. Hitler did not attack them because of Versailles. He attacked them before they could build up the strength to attack him. (That’s not saying he wouldn’t have done it eventually, but Hitler’s first aims at conquest were to the east --- liebstrauben.

To say that Versailles was the cause of Hitler's rise to power is speculative at best and not strongly supported by the facts. Germany had only been a 'nation' for 50 years or so at the end of WWI and had no history of democracy or self-government. Republican self-government was not wanted or admired among the majority of German people. They looked for a strong leader who would bring predictability. They wanted a totalitarian form of government because they did not trust that republican forms would work in Germany. Hitler took their natural inclination for ethnic self-identity, sprinkled it liberally with state socialism while promising the return to a fictions Aryan golden age that never existed and seized power with the consent of the people. He could have done the same if WWI had never happened or even if it had ended in stalemate, which would have been the case if the US had not entered the war. The German economy along with the economies of all of Europe, was in tatters at the end of WWI. The victors and the losers were all in equally bad shape. Germany’s economic situation was complicated by the end of monarchy and the governmental vacuum that followed. Italy, a victor in WWI faced the same inability to function in a democracy when faced with economic problems and also chose a fascist/socialist strong man as dictator. Did Versailles or the US entry into WWI bring Mousolinni to power?

57 posted on 03/19/2002 1:33:56 PM PST by Ditto
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To: Demidog
He was absolutely correct and WWII was precipitated by the French marching into Germany in order to physically demand payments that were impossible for the Germans to make.

The invasion of France by Hitler was a direct retribution for that act.

Demi, you might have a reference that backs this up. But my recollection is that there were a lot of things that finally culminated in the second World War.

The Treaty of Versailles was harsh indeed, and Germany couldn't make the reparations called for. At the Lausanne Conference in 1932, representatives of France, Great Britain, and Japan met with German representatives to consider German reparations. The French, British, and Japanese agreed to defer the German debt contingent on the United States agreeing.

However.....however, the US Congers forbade deferment, and so the agreement cratered.

It wasn't too long afterwards that Hitler weasled his way to absolute power. He then announced that Germany would abrogate the Treaty of Versailles. So began the series of threats and crises that led to Germany's reannexation of the Saar basin, the Austrian anschluss, the demand for Sudeten autonomy, followed by the shameful agreement entered into by Chamberlain to cede the Sudetenland to Hitler. Next came the announcement of the German-Soviet non-aggression treaty. The Polish invasion immediately followed.

Most of these latter events I remember rather vividly. I don't think that France physically marched into Germany to demand reparations, thus starting WWII. Britain and France declared war because they had a mutual defense treaty with Poland. Hitler never anticipated their honoring the Polish pact, because he had his eyes on invading Russia. Bad miscalculation.

It was reported at the time that Hitler believed that the United States wouldn't enter the war because it was too decadent. Another bad miscalculation.

62 posted on 03/19/2002 3:08:47 PM PST by Ole Okie
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To: Demidog
WWII was precipitated by the French marching into Germany in order to physically demand payments that were impossible for the Germans to make.

That's one I have never heard. Source please.

72 posted on 03/20/2002 3:23:14 AM PST by metesky
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