President sprinkles Spanish into his pitch to Hispanic business leaders (Wants Amnesty Bill Passed)

AP ^ | March 6, 2002 | SCOTT LINDLAW

[koba]

You're right in some respects about the upward mobility that America engenders. Yet, you seem to have too idealistic a view of the situation. The children of illegals will more often than not probably end up on welfare or in some gang than end up educated and successful. Take a city like Fresno, Calfornia, for example. Their are many immigrants' children there. Fresno has a 25% welfare rate and a 16% unemployment rate. The city is deteriorating. Is this the America of the future? Hispanic drop-out rates from high-school are high (around 30%), illegimate children are the same rate. These numbers, among others, don't predict success. Hispanics are, after American Indians and Blacks, the poorest ethnic group in America, with a 25% welfare dependency rate. These numbers don't bode well for the future.

[ArneFufkin]

FITZ, we can't hunt all these folks down and deport them. It's impossible. We need an approach to get these 5-7 million people currently tiptoeing around our country in a state of fear and confusion accounted for and organized. There's no other option! The past is past, Clinton opened the floodgates, Bush has to deal with the carnage, and these folks need assurances to come forward and become part of the legally recognized American family. Part of the process is that we deport all the criminals to Mexican prisons and seal the damn border airtight - but we also need to implement a special process for facilitating the legal movement of people back and forth accross the Mexican border. What choice do we have? The status quo is unacceptable, and seven million Mexican nationals with legal and documented residency status is a far better scenario for everyone, Americans and Mexicans.

[FITZ]

How come all that wonderful upward mobility didn't happen to the inner city people? For the same reason it's not going to happen to many of the illegals who move into housing projects and lack education. We have a 38% drop out rate here along the border, teen pregnancy rates are higher in this group than they are for inner city teens. That upward mobility does happen for some of the immigrants but it's not happening for many. Travel to the SW and take a look around some of the county hospitals and housing projects ---you aren't going to see upward mobility.

[Highcard2U]

Thanks for saying in a few words how I, too, feel. Those filthy creatures are NOT Americans,nor will they EVER be. Their loyality is to Mexico never the USA. I have an idea: Why don't we "draft" the Mexicans into the Army, send them over to be target practice for the Muslims? Solves two problems at once. Gets rid of the Mexicans and reveals the locations of the other enemies.

[FITZ]

The status quo is unacceptable, and seven million Mexican nationals with legal and documented residency status is a far better scenario for everyone, Americans and Mexicans.

What's so wrong with leaving them unamnestied? If they had cared about being legal immigrants, they would have chosen the legal route in the first place. They don't qualify for many of the handout programs if they stay illegal ---but they still get in on plenty.

Why should people who chose to break the law be given preference over those who followed the law and tried to do things right? There are people from Mexico I know who have filled out their forms, and are obeying all the rules who are still not given immigration rights and are patiently waiting. Why should their respect for the law punish them by giving their place in this country to someone who blatantly broke the law?

[FITZ]

but we also need to implement a special process for facilitating the legal movement of people back and forth accross the Mexican border.

We already have that ---it is called legal immigration. Many Mexicans did immigrate here legally, they are the ones who bothered to learn our language, studied our history and Constitution and obeyed our laws from the start. There is no good reason to award full rights of citizenship to those who won't speak the language, and who already prove they have no respect for our laws.

[ArneFufkin]

koba, that's a political problem. Why should your public schools feel obligated to accept children not legally residing in their district? Why should welfare offices provide benefits to those not legally residing in their counties? Can I just show up at a county welfare office and be automatically approved for benefits? Hey, I'll quit work, I'll just visit and arrange benefits from every county in America. Why are the politicians offering these blanket authorizations to illegals? Emergency medical care, sure, that's only humane. But, that's it. Who's crafting these policies, they need to be removed. You need to grab about 30 of your neighbors and storm the next County Board or Commissioner's meeting and demand answers. Let them explain why you should pay for the education, food, housing and medical care of non residents. Then go to Sacramento and make yourself a presence at the Human Services Appropriations hearings. You and every other pissed off person here are getting ripped off, but it's by your local politicians, not George Bush. He's trying to get a handle on this mess.

[koba]

You're right, a lot of complaining but not much grass-roots action. The illegals do hard low-paying work, that's a fact.

[Valin]

If what you say is true(and I have no reason to doubt it) it's time for the US government to start to put pressre on the Mexican government to get their act together. For the most part the type of person who is coming here illegaly is just the sort of person Mexico needs to stay home and help build up their economy. There's a real good reason why we don't have the same problem with Canada.

[ArneFufkin]

Why should their respect for the law punish them by giving their place in this country to someone who blatantly broke the law?

The amnesty makes sense to me. Your beef is with the local pols who are giving the illegals handouts. They are the problem.

[WRhine]

Gee another holier than thou Neo-Con. Threads like this are an embarrassment? You are totally disconnected from reality. America is being overrun by millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS from a primitive 3rd World country that has next to nothing in common with American culture and you think this is a good thing? Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of struggling Americans that have lost their job because their company hired “illegal labor” for a fraction of what they were "legally" paying CITIZENS before. Do the laws of this land mean anything to YOU? Which laws can I break as a citizen and get away with it?

No, in fact it's Neo-Cons like you that are devoid of any common sense who are an embarrassment to the Republican Party and conservative ideology. In case you haven't noticed, in the last few elections the illegal contingent in this country are making their presence felt (via motor voter) by voting ILLEGALLY in OUR ELECTIONS and it is the democrats that are reaping a huge windfall of new socialist voters. How does this help the conservative cause? Take a look at what has happened in CA and NM—two states, which prior to the Mexican Invasion, were for the most part reliably republican. Even AZ is beginning to teeter into the democrat column because of the growing contingent of (most illegal) Hispanics there.

And perhaps you can explain to us how importing tens of millions of unskilled, uneducated, culturally incompatible immigrants who for the most part have nothing but contempt for America will do anything other than debase our culture, create cynicism of our laws and promote more socialism?

Don't you ever wonder why the Democrats are trying so hard to get as many illegal aliens into America as they can? And did you ever wonder why the Republican Party is known as the “Stupid Party”?

I doubt neo-cons such as yourself will come to grips with your faulty reasoning until the republican party is out of power, conservatives are politically irrelevant and socialism rules the day.

[who knows what evil?]

Bush has got to go. I am sorry I voted for him now. But, I won't make the same mistake in 2004. You can bet your last dollar on that!!

Ditto. I NEARLY wrote in Alan Keyes, but settled on Bush because I was afraid Gore would win. I should have followed my original instinct and stuck to my principles. I will next time, regardless of the consequences. If the country has to swallow bitter medicine in order to arouse the people; so be it.

[FITZ]

It doesn't make sense. All it does it qualify lawbreakers to receive certain government handouts they can't get by being illegal. They already are able to have jobs, housing, free medical care, WIC and many other benefits. They already have the option of applying for legal immigration just as everyone else is.

You mentioned closing up the border once THIS amnesty is given (it didn't happen last time obviously as was promised) and anyhow that isn't what President Fox is demanding. He is demanding one-way open borders, any citizen of Mexico is entitled to every job or benefit of the US. Meanwhile he continues to confiscate land purchased in Mexico by US citizens. Has he reimbursed any American who had their homes taken from them and were deported by Mexico?

[FITZ]

He's trying to get a handle on this mess.

The last amnesty created an even bigger mess ---it was supposed to be 300,000-800,000 and ended up being 3 million. Now we have even more illegals than ever before. There will be no stopping people from walking on over to claim amnesty this time either.

[ArneFufkin]

You let it happen, pal. Were you raising holy hell when the illegals were being enrolled in your school district? Did you make your board members quantify and justify the taxpayer cost burden associated with the admission and instruction of non-resident, non-English speaking students? Were you speaking out when your county commissioners extended blanket approval for non emergency medical care and welfare benefits for the undocumented Mexicans? Did you make sure that your local LE were assiduously arresting and holding all illegals for transfer to INS custody, no matter how annoying and time consuming that may have been to the cops and Feds? Were you on the watch for employers who appeared to be employing illegals, and did you confront them with your suspicions?

Did you do anything at all besides bitch and moan? Neo-con my ass, I get involved, establish an amicable relationship with my representaives and whenever necessary, make them justify - and quantify - their schemes and whims and largesse. Because its my money they're flushing down that bowl, but that's a neo-con concern. Take the "R" out of your moniker, that about says it all.

[Valin]

The amnesty makes sense to me.

The problem is been there-done that. It was tried in the early 80s...with a notable lack of success.