Here I present a statistical argument against Macro-evolution. Several evolutionists attempt to refute it. I put their comments in color. This was BEFORE gore3000 started posting in blue, so I don't mean anything by using that color. Mine are in black..I stick with this even when we are quoting each other in our posts. I invite all concerned Freepers to evaluate the arguments presented.....
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If there have indeed been 1.25 million groups of critters diverse enough from all other groups of critters to be classified as their own FAMILY, then......
Since all or almost all of the METAZOANS (animals) first came on the scene at the Cambrian some 543 million years ago, there has been on average, a new FAMILY appear every 435 years. (543 million/1.25 million)
The advent of Man and our recent (since man appeared) climate swings constitute a situation where MORE EVOLUTION than the norm should occur. Man has initiated a large number of extinctions. There have been a lot of extinctions during this epoch. That should open the door for larger than normal amounts of evolution as various niches are left unoccupied or new ones created by man's activities.
Note that by a reasonable set of numbers, NEW FAMILIES should be appearing every 435 years. Yet we have never even witnessed a new animal SPECIES except by SUBTRACTION of information. By this I mean species splitting due to geography or loss of an intermediate subpopulation or some such thing as that.
WHY O WHY don't we see NEW FAMILES? Have we even seen any new FAMILES in the last 30,000 years? I don't mean newly discovered ones that have been around a long time, I mean the NEW FAMILIES that we should expect to find if evolution is still doing what its proponents claim it has been doing throughout biotic history. Where are they?
It is far more reasonable to conclude that the ID people are right. There are only so many ways you can shuffle the genes of a fly or an ape or whatever. There are only so many allowable gene combinations that work and there are only so many mutations that will produce viable offspring under any natural cirmcustances.
ID Proposes this: Living creatures live on islands of genetic possiblity. The gaps between family groups are too big to be crossed the once every 434 years the evidence suggests it would have to be, should evolution be responsible.
I hope that even if not all of you can agree that ID is the best explanation, that at least we are not unreasonable to question the evolutionary hypothesis. I for one just don't see how it can do what folks have claimed that it has done. And if it did, why has it stopped? Where are the new families that should be popping up every few centuries? We have not seen that kind of change. We are still piddling over whether the populations we see separating are even truly new SPECIES.
One new FAMILY of animals every 435 years. Think about it.
38 Posted on 05/14/2001 17:57:51 PDT
To: VadeRetro[vade]
I think you don't realize that the divergence which ultimately results in a new family doesn't make a new family right away. At first the difference is just variety level, then species, etc. You have to get way down the road before you can appreciate the importance of that fork in the road back there in time.[/vade]
I am allowing for that Vade. I am not asking you to show it to me in one animal generation. I am saying that within an OBSERVABLE time it should have happened. If evolution proceeds at the rate which biotic diversity suggests, it should happen at the FAMILY level at an observable rate (once every 435 years on average).
I realize that to some degree it is a matter of opinion where family lines are drawn, but the borders are still real. The line can be fuzzy, but any competent scientist can tell any member of the CANINE family from any member of the FELINE family, or any other mammal family. Please, you simply must concede that this is so.
Yes, the proposed difference must work its way through the VARIETY level, then the SPECIES level, and then the GENUS level before branching off into a new family. I am allowing for all that, but I am also trying to put some numbers to the problem to determine how long this progession, on average, takes.
Those numbers tell me the VAREITY-SPECIES-GENUS-NEW FAMILY progression should occur at least once every 435 years. This has not been observed, even though conditions have been more favorable than average since the advent of man for it to occur. Hence I conclude that even though evolution is at work producing new SPECIES via subtraction of info, SOMETHING ELSE must have also contributed to biotic diversty.
I've personally been over a lot more with you than you admit in your post here. I don't wonder that you think you can present the topic in a light favorable to yourself if you're going to do such creative editing.