Yates lived by rigid schedule, according to husband

The Dallas Morning News ^ | March 1, 2002 (The Ides of March are upon us!) | By TERRI LANGFORD / The Dallas Morning News

[ikanakattara]

The big questions that you need to ask yourself are these:

1. Is Mr. Yates a Christian, and what do his restrictions and lifestyle choices have to do with Christianity?

I would say that for Yates, he (and perhaps Andrea) deliberately picked their own interpretation of Christianity, and surrounded themselves with people who supported it. They were involved in a very conservative church's homeschool group, but didn't go to church and "home-churched" instead. (This is not that unusual among a lot of ultra-conservative homeschoolers.) They followed this Worniecki guy, who sounds like a complete nut. It's not a form of Christianity many people subscribe to, but if you read their stuff, they think they are the only Christians on earth & everyone else has got a one-way ticket on the hell-bound train.

2. Did the continued lifestyle choices of Mr. Yates exacerbate the diagnosed mental illness of Andrea?

Absolutely.

3. Did he have the ability and resources to make different lifestyle choices that would have made life easier?

He was earning reasonable money as an engineer, and they could have afforded to live in a house. It sounds like all this "simple life" nonsense was his idea, linked to the ultra-pietistic "cult" mentality they'd both developed. Money wasn't their problem. He didn't *want* to make her life easier.

I have known a *lot* of homeschoolers like this. The difference is, while the wives went along with it (canning the tomatoes, sewing the prairie dresses, not even spending any money for homeschooling materials but thinking they could get buy with some yellow pads and pencils), the difference was that these wives were fundamentally stable. They were able to cope - Andrea Yates was not. Again, this doesn't mean Yates wasn't legally culpable (she could have left and divorced him), but that some people cannot handle this extreme kind of life. Since the viewpoint is that if you *can't* handle it, it's because you're in the Devil's clutches, it's just going to spiral and get worse.

Don't for a minute think that this is an isolated, exceptional lifestyle. It's OUT THERE and fairly common in the pietistic Christian homeschooling world.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Why didn't the State put her away for a while? I lived next door to a woman that try to kill her self once a week. At least once a week, I would come home from work to see the E unit sitting out front of their home. Eventually, the woman was put away for a while and the daughter stayed with grandparents. I'm not sure which grandparents. She always called 911, too. At this point, I'm wondering if her husband might have finally had enough and suggested she be put away. At any rate she was separated from her daughter, and something was done, which doesn't seem to be the case here. Someone else is equally responsible for these children being left in harms way.

[AppyPappy]

Exactly. She was destined to kill those kids IMHO. If he had tried to get the State to remove the kids, she might have killed them anyway and DemiDog would be crowing about how CPS "killed" those kids and how the husband "drove her" to kill the kids by taking them. Suicide attempts do NOT prevent women from having custody. At least not in NC.

She willingly married and stayed with a control freak. Having dated a control freak, I can say that part of it is self-inflicted. Not all of it but some. She could have walked at any time.

I don't think she had any business raising those kids but I don't think it could have been stopped given current laws. Blaming the husband as being equally responsible is like saying she didn't really kill them, the water did.

[hobbes1]

that's kind of my point. Obviously the psychiatrics felt her to be a danger, because they advised her to stop having children. Once she continued down that path, then was actually comitted, Before they let her out, did they not have a responsibility to report the incipient danger ?

[FITZ]

I don't see how he can be blamed for not being a psychic. According to all the stories, she never harmed or tried to kill the kids before at least as far as anyone knew. If he had predicted this and took off with the kids to save their lives, he'd be arrested for kidnapping them, for taking them from their poor victimized mother. He's more the victim here than she is, she is an evil manipulative woman ---her suicide attempts never succeeded because she never intended to kill herself, just manipulate those around her.

[ClancyJ]

She seemed to be overly concerned about their righteiousness.

Have you noticed that so many insane people have some form of religious hangup. I don't think it has anything to do with which religion, I just think that something in them latches on to that area of life because it is a spiritual part of life. Other parts of life are based in day to day facts. Religion and faith are based on our internal faith, beliefs and our hope for life after death. This is where distortions would most easily be cultivated in their disturbed minds.

[AppyPappy]

I don't see that considering she was in deep with a control freak. I imagine she had rendered herself completely incapable of being on her own. She couldn't live without someone pointing her where she needed to go.

The woman was nuts. Plain and simple. The husband was an idiot who was fine with his wife putting a knife to her throat as long as dinner was on-time.

[biblewonk]

Well, I've been accused of seeing religion in everything so ofcourse all insane people seem to have a religious hangup to me.

[ClancyJ]

ghastly "my wife left me, pray for me, you're all I've got" threads.

Getting a little cynical aren't we? LOL

[ET(end tyranny)]

Don't the mental health professionals have to report a possibly dangerous condition ?

HA! From what I have seen lately of mental health, they could care less. I suspect that they get funding, much the same way as schools, via headcount.

I spend Saturdays with mentally challenged people, taking them out shopping, for dinner, visits to zoo's or other activities. I know of a case where one person at a foster home tried to kill himself by slitting his wrists. The foster people didn't want him around, felt he was a danger to the others. So, the guy gets placed in a foster home where the people let the clients drink till they are drunk, no curfews, no supervusion at all. Makes no sense.

One of my friends and I took him along with the others we take on Saturdays and after he got home, he called my friend telling her that he was having 'bad thoughts' about her and myself. He had told her before that he thinks of raping and killing all the time. He only lives a couple of blocks from where she lives. Scared her bad enough that she called mental health. They suggested we not take him with us anymore.

No kidding! Doh!

We've reported foster people for not giving adequate care to their clients. I took one of them get medical attention because they had an ear infection for several months and the ear had pus draining out of it. One client was bitten by twice by a dog owned by the foster people. The wound needed stitches but the foster people slapped a band aid on it and sent him off to the day center. My friend called and told mental health, so they were aware on the injury. This type of crap has gone on for YEARS, but these people just keep taking on more clients. They don't care and are in it for the money. And unfortuantely, it looks like mental health is too.

I could go on and on, about the mental health clinics in that county, but why bother.

[GalvestonGal.com]

I'm curious about all those pro-homeschooling, pro-rigid schedule, pro-man in financial control, pro-social control of the woman, and and anti-mental health care provisions which must apparently be found in Christ's words. Since you are a legend in your own mind, and an expert in all things biblical, you want to cut and paste them, complete with contextual statements?

I don't invite that onto the thread, but I'm curious about the name of the "church" or sect, or trailer off some dirt road, back in the woods that preaches this garbage.

I haven't read all the reports, if it was named before, someone point me to articles about it. Are they in Harris (Houston) or Galveston County?

[ET(end tyranny)]

Blaming the husband as being equally responsible is like saying she didn't really kill them, the water did.

Do also agree then, that people don't kill, guns do?

[ET(end tyranny)]

Disregard 273, I mis-read it.

[joathome]

"I think it is wrong to represent children and home-schooling, or natural childbirth as a punishing regime. Or even three hours off a week. These are not things that are in themselves punishing. It does not lead to mass murder of the children. People should look elsewhere for an explanation."

You are missing the point! Expecting a woman with her past mental history to do these things is a "punishing regime". It certainly ended up being punishment for the innocent children involved.

There may have been times in my life when I was swamped with four children, and homeschooling, too, but I can assure you that my husband did not control my life to the extent that I had three hours off, once a week, between the hours of six and nine. GEESH! Don't you find that CONTROLLING????

[Dianna]

I don't see that considering she was in deep with a control freak. I imagine she had rendered herself completely incapable of being on her own. She couldn't live without someone pointing her where she needed to go.

And yet, you keep saying she could have walked out at any time? "She could have gotten help?"

At some point, very early on, she probably was capable of doing these things. I think she was trying to get help, attempting suicide shouts louder than anything I've heard. EVERYONE failed her. EVERYONE!

Lock her up forever. The rest is up to God.

[hobbes1]

But could not the claim be made, that if she was a danger to herself, She was a danger to those she cared for...?

I am not looking at this from Dads perspective.I wish they were frying his ass, and it severly irks me that they aren't. But I wish all the Culpable parties exposed.

Including the Gottdanged State, who, If the kids showed up at school with a bruise that even looked questionable, would be on the doorstep with a protective custody order.

[Terriergal]

THREE HOURS?? A WEEK??? sheesh. I'd go nuts! During hunting season I (stay at home mom) get a lot more time without my kids than hubby does, probably! (because I HUNT and he goes if I don't want to).

Russell sound like the guy in "Sleeping with the Enemy" for Pete's sake.

It makes me wonder just how much time he "alloted" for the two of them alone together each week. My guess is not much meaningful time.

[GalvestonGal.com]

so long as she wasn't a drooling, babbling idiot...she could quite possibly have gotten some REAL help from SOMEWHERE.....I wonder if her psych Dr is harboring any guilt for not "seeing the signs"????

Evidently she was drooling and babbling. Repeating an earlier comment...the next event will be to sue the psychiatrist.

Note to anyone who keeps piping up with the "she could have left, she chose the wrong path...." Mental illness is CHEMICAL, not moral etc. Diabetics don't choose their bodies' response to sugar. People this mentally ill, by definition, are incapable of rational action.

Since we are acting as the jury here: my vote is too commit the women forever. What would that be, murder with no parole? Not the death penalty.