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To: winstonchurchill
"Since you know the secret handshake (this bizarre doctrine), you must be one of the elect"

Know what, you are probably the most contrary individuals I have ever met, in person or online.

You keep using language that is sure to cause offense ("secret handshake", "bizarre doctrine", "ghoulish god", etc.), as well as telling us that we certainly can't be old time Calvinists because we don't conform to your stupid notion of what a Calvinist should be. This is the reason that I choose to ignore you most of the time.

Now, let's set the record straight. This old-time, five-point Calvinist did have a salvation experience, it was July 24, 1972 at approximately 10:00 PM MDT, in my bedroom in El Paso, Texas. I can still remember the day and hour as if it was yesterday. The Holy Spirit of God made Christ real to me, and the horror of my sins was a huge weight that only Christ could remove. Thank God, I haven't gotten over that experience to this day. I saw the Spirit of God do the same work in my Father's life in February of 1973 as I shared the Gospel with him about 20 feet removed from the spot where I had my salvation experience. I have seen the Spirit open the eyes of countless others during the past 30 years. We know full-well the joy of being "born again" and experiencing the beauty of Christ.

Secondly, just because one has a Calvinist doctrine does not mean that they are actually one of the elect. I know of several individuals who are rock-solid in their doctrine, but I don't see any spiritual fruit in their lives. I would have a hard time believing that they are actually regenerate saints. Of course, that isn't up to me to judge, but I certainly don't see the Spirit of Christ at work in their lives. At the same time, I know of a great number of saints who exhibit the fruit of the Spirit in their lives, and they do not hold to the "Calvinist construct". I know some who couldn't articulate a theological stance if their life depended on it, they simply know Jesus. There are others who are quite articulate in defending their theology, even if it differs from mine, including one Jesuit priest that I have known for more than 20 years. While he and I are often at theological odds, I have never had reason to doubt his salvation.

Please quit being an accuser of the brethren. It is certainly clear that you hate our theology, but your continual use of hateful and offensive language, coupled with your unrelenting sarcasm, are just a little bit much for my spirit to bear.

999 posted on 03/01/2002 1:28:56 PM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Jerry_M
Please quit being an accuser of the brethren. It is certainly clear that you hate our theology ...

I don't accuse "the brethren", but I do certainly accuse the Calvinist construct of being just that, a wholly-manmade 16th century overlay upon the Scriptures which bears no resemblance to the Scriptural Gospel of Christ. Period.

There is a lot of discussion on these boards about how the RCC and the Mormon church can mislead people with their add-ons to Scripture (and that is certainly true), but after watching the bitter, puffed-up, misleading nonsense put out on these boards over the last several months in defense of that 16th century construct and the plain damage done to the Name of Christ in the eyes of non-believers by that presentation, I am increasingly convinced that those defenders of the construct do much more damage to the cause of Christ than the papists or the mormons could ever hope to do.

1,002 posted on 03/01/2002 1:46:55 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: Jerry_M; winstonchurchill
Know what, you are probably the most contrary individuals I have ever met, in person or online.

I resent that Jerry! That's MY job!!! ;-)

(Be careful out there)

1,010 posted on 03/01/2002 2:35:31 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: Jerry_M
Now, let's set the record straight. This old-time, five-point Calvinist did have a salvation experience, it was July 24, 1972 at approximately 10:00 PM MDT, in my bedroom in El Paso, Texas. I can still remember the day and hour as if it was yesterday. The Holy Spirit of God made Christ real to me, and the horror of my sins was a huge weight that only Christ could remove. Thank God, I haven't gotten over that experience to this day. I saw the Spirit of God do the same work in my Father's life in February of 1973 as I shared the Gospel with him about 20 feet removed from the spot where I had my salvation experience. I have seen the Spirit open the eyes of countless others during the past 30 years. We know full-well the joy of being "born again" and experiencing the beauty of Christ.

Amen and Amen! Glory to God!

1,055 posted on 03/02/2002 12:29:53 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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