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To: Ward Smythe
"Because if they are, they can mean nothing else but that God created some individuals for the sole purpose of condemning them to eternal torment."

Please help me understand this. If our Sovereign God created some without the hope of salvation's grace, would they then not be considered obedient to His purpose and not be considered "lost in sin"? Do I not understand correctly that all disobedience to God is "sin" - and if by reason this is true, would the "disobedient" which were predestined to that end, not actually be "obedient" to God's purpose? Whew! I'm dizzy from going in circles.
What happened to mankind's choosing the paths of destruction as many of the OT prophets so sincerely warned of doing? Why would God directly tell Cain that if he chose to do well, Cain would be accepted but if not, sin lieth at his door? And lastly, why would Joshua ask Israel to choose this day whom they would serve?

I know, all that's Old Testament scripture, but the New Testament is the record of the OT fulfilled by Christ's work, isn't it? In the NT, we are told that it is the Lord's will that all come to repentance (2 Pet. Ch. 3 V. 9). I take the words "not willing" to mean the Lord's will. Does this indicate His will is a failure? Certainly not. Why? Because the freedom to choose seems to play a huge part in the consequences.
In this sense, Calvinism really confuses me. So I think it's best I stick to the simple - to love my God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength. And at my best, to love others as myself. I believe it is this "soul" purpose to which we were predestined as brothers in Christ...
Az

69 posted on 02/26/2002 1:37:49 PM PST by azhenfud
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To: azhenfud
Well, why would you want to go to Ward, who doesn't know Calvinism, for information about Calvinism.

In the NT, we are told that it is the Lord's will that all come to repentance (2 Pet. Ch. 3 V. 9). I take the words "not willing" to mean the Lord's will. Does this indicate His will is a failure? Certainly not. Why? Because the freedom to choose seems to play a huge part in the consequences.

Who are the us in that verse. Who is the Lord talking about? BTW, according to your reading, does the will of man supercede that of God?

70 posted on 02/26/2002 2:00:06 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: azhenfud
Why would God directly tell Cain that if he chose to do well, Cain would be accepted but if not, sin lieth at his door? And lastly, why would Joshua ask Israel to choose this day whom they would serve?

Do you propose that God did not foreknow that Cain would kill Abel? Please remember that the plan of salvation was made before the foundation of the earth..God knew that Adam ate the fruit.Yet He asked Adam "Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?" . And in the same way he warned Cain what his life would be when he sinned, just as He warns both the saved and unsaved today.

73 posted on 02/26/2002 2:13:39 PM PST by RnMomof7
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