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To: xzins; the_doc
Re. 52.

Let's approach this from this standpoint:

Was John Calvin perfect? No, he was a sinner, saved by grace, just as Saul of Tarsus, complicit in the murder of Stephen, was a sinner, saved by grace.

Was John Wesley perfect? Well, he did argue for "complete sanctification, and wants us to believe he was pretty darn close to becoming perfect in his earthly life, but I would argue that he was also a sinner, saved by grace.

Just how much sin does it take to send a man to hell?

(Also, you keep insisting that you have been called "satanic". Very disingenuous of you, it has been stated that you might be subject to "satanic deception", and that is something completely different. The fact that you won't admit that you are susceptible to this deception is more troubling to me than anything you could post about John Calvin. Besides, when did any of us ever claim that "Calvinism" was anything other than a descriptive nickname for the truth of the Gospel?)

67 posted on 02/26/2002 1:31:49 PM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Jerry_M
"Calvinism"...a descriptive nickname for the truth of the Gospel!

Good News For The Day

‘But now that you know God-or rather, are known by God.’ (Galatians 4:9)

The Galatians have inherited a new situation, in the gospel. They have come to know God. But having said as much, Paul checks himself, realizing that there is another way of saying that, which is closer to the truth: "Rather, now that God knows you." The first statement has the human agent in view. The second, centers on God. In Christianity, the work is not so much done by us, as upon us. It is not our recognition of God, but his recognizing us, that counts for everything.

It is always possible for Christians to lose this perspective. They can become busy in service; anxiously involved in many programs; vigorous in their promotion of sacrifice, commitment, decision and loyalty. The result can be a hectic, stressful life, without serenity or assurance.

Peace for the soul does not come from a religious experience that majors in what we are doing for God. The things we are doing are often not very good, and often they are fruitless. Spiritual rest comes from trust in what God has done for us.

The human quest for God, is not and never will be the gospel. The gospel is God's quest for humanity. God, seeking us; God, finding us; God, not willing to let us go.

Let me no more, my comfort draw,
From my frail hold on thee.
In this alone rejoice with awe,
Thy mighty... grasp---of me.

Thy mighty grasp of me!

72 posted on 02/26/2002 2:11:08 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Jerry_M
If I may step in, he's not answering because you both know the answer--everyone is suspectible to satanic deception; but if he admits it, you're going to more or less wave his arguments off with "you've been deceived by Satan."

My father & pastor used to do the same thing to me all the time in childhood.

79 posted on 02/26/2002 3:50:46 PM PST by Nataku X
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