[CCWoody]

Because if they are, they can mean nothing else but that God created some individuals for the sole purpose of condemning them to eternal torment.

You and Wesley are choking on what is not Calvinism.

Would you say that God is the creator of all? Yes
Would you say that God knew his elect from the foundations of the world? Yes
Would you say that God knew the non-elect from the foundations of the world? Yes
Would you say that only the elect can come to God? No

You make an interesting point: God knew his elect from the foundations of the world! God just didn't know about them, He knew them altogether.

Before, I continue to clarify our position, please answer your own 4 questions.

[Ward Smythe]

Would you say that only the elect can come to God? No

Really?

Before, I continue to clarify our position, please answer your own 4 questions.

I'm on my way out the door and won't be back online for a few hours (at least). I'll try to get back to you later this evening.