[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Now can we get the Arminian objection in one sentence? ~~ Jerry, now don't get nervous. I was gonna get to that. Let's get tulip spelled out first.

Nope. It's all about the "T".

Speaking on behalf of the Calvinists, we will respectfully refuse to consider further points of the Remonstration (the 5-point debate) until our definition of the T is either disproven as Biblical, or accepted as Biblical.

This is a fair request, as if we are wrong on the T, it is unnecessary to procede further (our position would be demonstrably wrong).

Therefore, we request your objection, if any, to the doctrine of Total Depravity; or, your acknowledgement that the doctrine of Total Depravity is Biblically correct, as stated.

After we address that matter, we will proceed. But we respectfully insist upon a summary decision concerning Total Depravity before continuing with the case. And we are entitled to that eminently reasonable insistence.

Best,
OP

[Ward Smythe]

Speaking on behalf of the Calvinists, we will respectfully refuse to consider further points of the Remonstration (the 5-point debate) until our definition of the T is either disproven as Biblical, or accepted as Biblical.

Otherwise what? You'll take your Institutes and go home?

Respectfully, you forgot to say "Nanny Nanny Boo Boo."

[Jerry_M]

Good point. It is fruitless to continue discussing anything else without some closure on "T".

If we are Biblically wrong on "T", then there is no reason discussing anything else. If the Calvinist is wrong, and man is not "Totally Depraved", then it really doesn't matter what we think about the solution to this "Total Depravity", does it?

As a result, I withdraw my definition of "U", unless xzins will concur with us concerning the state of man.

[RnMomof7]

Speaking on behalf of the Calvinists, we will respectfully refuse to consider further points of the Remonstration (the 5-point debate) until our definition of the T is either disproven as Biblical, or accepted as Biblical.

This seems corect. As it was a founding doctrine of the Reformation it seems the burden is theirs to prove!

[xzins]

You weren't part of the decision to do this. The point arose because we Arminians kept being accused of misunderstanding the various points of tulip (not just the T.) This has nothing to do with proving it or disproving it. It has to do with YOUR helping us to understand it correctly so we will be better able to speak to it.

Now, are you gonna be a stick in the mud, or are you gonna help with this project? :-)