[CCWoody]

God knows that man sins; for he knows all things: Yet we do not sin because he knows it, but he knows it because we sin; and his knowledge supposes our sin, but does not in anywise cause it. John Wesley on Predestination.

I will grant you this statement. It affects absolutely nothing about the Predestination we are discussing. You have already granted that God, knowing the final chioce of a man, could have created him differently so that he would have chosen to Repent. It is God's foreknowledge of his choice to create him this way or that way, which Predestined that man. You have already given me this.

[Ward Smythe]

It affects absolutely nothing about the Predestination we are discussing.

Of course it does.

That's precisely the concept that's hard to grasp Woody. You can't see what we're saying, even if you believe it's wrong. Follow the link, read the sermon.

It's not really fair of you to fault me for not knowing what Calvinism is saying when you don't know what Wesleyanism is saying. Granted, it's a very subtle difference. I acknowledged that much earlier. But there is a distinction.