Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

On Free Grace
Wesley Center of Applied Theology | 1740 | John Wesley

Posted on 02/25/2002 11:01:41 PM PST by fortheDeclaration

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,221-1,2401,241-1,2601,261-1,280 ... 1,321-1,326 next last
To: RnMomof7
You may want to consult with WM for a commom presentation..you are a team

???????

I've barely done anything on this list today. What am I in trouble for?

1,241 posted on 03/03/2002 2:01:25 PM PST by xzins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1228 | View Replies]

To: Jerry_M, ward smythe,Xzins,Shadowace, winstonchurchill, White Mountain
Sorry for getting out of the box you have constructed for me.

Just because you are inconsistent with your own system, do not blame me for the 'box'.

I noticed that you never once stated where I was wrong, theologically speaking!

The only thing that keeps any sanity in a Calvinist is not following that system!

1,242 posted on 03/03/2002 2:04:55 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1214 | View Replies]

To: xzins;CCWoody;Jerry_M;OrthodoxPresbyterian;the_doc;WardSmythe
It was 2 or 3 hundred posts earlier.

No we never had a consentrated discussion on total depravity..I agree with OP that we need to clear that one out before moving on !

1,243 posted on 03/03/2002 2:07:14 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1238 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7; CCWoody; Jerry_M; OrthodoxPresbyterian; Ward Smythe
Thank you Jerry and Woody and OP and Doc..you were all right. I have always really been a Calvinist..because I have never been willing to compromise the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

We saw indications of this in you before you saw it in yourself. Even when I was pretty rough in addressing your inconsistencies, I held out meaningful hope that you would eventually come around, that you would eventually see that our strange position is correct, is even downright wonderful!

(The key point is that I had no confidence in you in this regard.)

1,244 posted on 03/03/2002 2:07:57 PM PST by the_doc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1199 | View Replies]

To: White Mountain
You're stuck with me!

Then you had better become a Christian.

1,245 posted on 03/03/2002 2:08:55 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1239 | View Replies]

To: xzins
You have made a back slapping good ole boy alligence with WM last night..seeing that you guys are a team you had best represent both your views
1,246 posted on 03/03/2002 2:10:43 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1241 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
I agree with OP that we need to clear that one out before moving on !

Agree with him all you want. I'm moving on. I've asked for definitions and I keep getting this same stone wall. You force me to go to calvinist websites to find the answers. So be it.

I'm really interested in the education value: for all of us, for lurkers, readers, participants, freepers, etc.

Gotta go, Mom. Church beckons. Don't you all do Wednesday and Sunday night church?

1,247 posted on 03/03/2002 2:13:19 PM PST by xzins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1243 | View Replies]

To: the_doc
(The key point is that I had no confidence in you in this regard.)

Shows why you were bright enough to be an engineer:>))

1,248 posted on 03/03/2002 2:13:41 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1244 | View Replies]

To: xzins
Yes we do!
1,249 posted on 03/03/2002 2:14:13 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1247 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
back slapping good ole boy alligence with WM

He knows I don't agree with mormonism. He knows I do agree with free choice. He complimented me and I accepted the compliment. What better way to open a door to The Door? Paul tells me NOT NOT NOT to cut myself off from the world; only from backslidden Christians. WM is NOT a backslidden Christian. In my book he's first time evangelism material with a pre-existing knowledge of the bible.

1,250 posted on 03/03/2002 2:17:48 PM PST by xzins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1246 | View Replies]

To: Ward Smythe,White Mountain, Xzins, shadowace, winstonchurchill,aruanan
have been accused of being unequally yoked with the Mormons since I happen to agree with WhiteMountain that Calvinism is a horrid theology.

You also? Calvinists do not understand that their system is not biblical but philosophical and therefore open to criticism by anyone. The final appeal to the 'secret councils' is not an appeal to scripture but an 'appeal to authority' which can be questioned by anyone.

Let me state here and now, Mormonism is worse. I believe their teachings are false. I believe they will lead true believers astray.

I agree. Calvinists are at least saved (hopefully).

BUT THE FACT IS: - The do possess some of the truth. However warped we may view it, however misguided they may be, they do hold some spiritual truths that would be in agreement with all of us on this board.

I would not say 'spiritual' truths, but natural ones (Rom.2:15)

The Calvinists are just smarting because WM and I have problems with Calvinist theology.

Amen!

Perhaps most telling of all is that it doesn't seem to bother the Mormon that I'm in agreement with the Calvinists concerning Mormonism. However, this has never been a discussion of Mormonism. This was a discussion concerning truth.

Amen!

We know the Calvinists believe they have it all.

Amen!

That doesn't mean that no one else has any of it.

A theological system must deal with the problem of evil ( not make God the creator of it for some 'secret reason'.

The theist must so structure a theology as to contain views of God, evil and human freedom which, when put together do not contradict each other. In particular, theists must avoid a system in which God is said to be both good and able to remove evil, despite the system's admission of the existence of evil.Such a system will most assuredly succumb to its problem of evil.(Concise Evangelical Dictinary of Theology,p.168)
Thus, since Calvinism does not make its final appeal to the scriptures but to a mysterious God who (despite depicted otherwise in Scripture) has made by His directive will every. evil act in history happen to bring about His own Glory, even unbelievers can question the reasoning behind such a system.
1,251 posted on 03/03/2002 2:22:48 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1211 | View Replies]

To: xzins
In my book he's first time evangelism material with a pre-existing knowledge of the bible.

The feeling is mutual..and right now he is winning

1,252 posted on 03/03/2002 2:23:57 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1250 | View Replies]

To: CCWoody, White Mountain,Ward Smythe, Xzins, shadowace
Despite your denials, I believe in and obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and despite your accusations, the other non-Calvinists did not choose me as an ally. - White Mountain Just in case you all missed it.

Meaning? White Mountain thinks that Mormonism is following The Lord Jesus Christ. What did you expect him to say, short of rejecting Mormonism and becoming a Christian?

1,253 posted on 03/03/2002 2:26:53 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1198 | View Replies]

To: the_doc
...our strange position...

Parsing your quotation as a Calvinist does Scripture, yes, it is a "strange position". One might say, Calvinism is theological pretzeldom.

1,254 posted on 03/03/2002 2:32:30 PM PST by winstonchurchill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1244 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7, White Mountain, Xzins, winston churchill, ward smythe, aruanan
believe in and obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and despite your accusations, the other non-Calvinists did not choose me as an ally. I post independently Ya have a different gospel WM. I love you enough to tell you that. It also means that what you say has no impact here because you do not hold the same gospel as we do. I love you WM, you are a very nice man...but nothing you have to say spiritually has any impact on the discussion between Arminins and Calvinists.

White Mountains insights on the philosophical inconsistencies are just as valid as any Christian making them.

The fact is you Calvinists have closed you ears to what anyone says to you. You are even willing to have God the author of sin and evil then admit how horrid a system Calvinism is!

A 'theological' system that makes it final appeal,not to scripture, but to the 'secret councils' can be criticized by believer and unbeliever, since it is not using Scriptures but a 'mysterious' God as it's defense. Even unbelievers are aware of certain aspects of God, (Rom.2:15,Acts 17)

1,255 posted on 03/03/2002 2:33:45 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1188 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7; Jerry_M; xzins; CCWoody; the_doc; ShadowAce; forthedeclaration
The difference is we know the answer to them

Oh, you know, I keep forgetting you have all the answers.

On my way to choir practice this afternoon.... OH NO! Wait, the Mormoms have a CHOIR too!!! oh the humanity.

Oh, the stupidity.

The construction of your Calvinist house of cards is so fragile that you simply fear giving even in one little area.

If WhiteMountain had come in here railing against Catholicism you would have been all over it. (Save yourself some time, we know you'll deny that too.)

But instead he spoke against Calvinism.

And the Arminians speak against Calvinism.

That does not unite us in fellowship. It means we both disagree with the Calvinist position.

You know I nailed you on it, as does everyone who read the exchange. But don't worry, I don't expect you to ever admit it. Your pride will not allow you.

By the way Jerry, it's nice to know you think murder, incest and adultery are bad.

The Christians I know call them sin.

1,256 posted on 03/03/2002 2:39:40 PM PST by Ward Smythe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1227 | View Replies]

To: fortheDeclaration
A 'theological' system that makes it final appeal,not to scripture, but to the 'secret councils' can be criticized by believer and unbeliever, since it is not using Scriptures but a 'mysterious' God as it's defense. Even unbelievers are aware of certain aspects of God, (Rom.2:15,Acts 17)

1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Don't look now but your mold is showing

1,257 posted on 03/03/2002 2:42:39 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1255 | View Replies]

To: White Mountain, ward smythe, Xzins, winstonchurchill, aruanan
"Unconditional Election: BEFORE CREATION GOD HAS ELECTED FOR HIS OWN REASONS SOME FOR BELIEVING UNTO GLORY AND SOME FOR DAMNATION." Nope. I would suggest: God has elected, in accordance with His own will, and without regard for the merit of those elected (due to the fact that they have none, they are "Totally Depraved"), some for salvation. The rest He has left in their sins. In all cases, He is glorified.

Well, accept for the idea of reprobation ( 'just'leaving the unbeliever in his sin instead of a double predestination, which the effect is the same) I do not see any real difference between the two statements!

This is just pure double-talk!

1,258 posted on 03/03/2002 2:42:54 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1174 | View Replies]

To: Ward Smythe
1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
1,259 posted on 03/03/2002 2:45:16 PM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1256 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Don't look now but your mold is showing

Well, that was a 'nice' cyptic remark. Espically from someone who lied about me not witnessing to White Mountain!

1,260 posted on 03/03/2002 2:50:34 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1257 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,221-1,2401,241-1,2601,261-1,280 ... 1,321-1,326 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson