Posted on 02/25/2002 11:01:41 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
???????
I've barely done anything on this list today. What am I in trouble for?
Just because you are inconsistent with your own system, do not blame me for the 'box'.
I noticed that you never once stated where I was wrong, theologically speaking!
The only thing that keeps any sanity in a Calvinist is not following that system!
No we never had a consentrated discussion on total depravity..I agree with OP that we need to clear that one out before moving on !
We saw indications of this in you before you saw it in yourself. Even when I was pretty rough in addressing your inconsistencies, I held out meaningful hope that you would eventually come around, that you would eventually see that our strange position is correct, is even downright wonderful!
(The key point is that I had no confidence in you in this regard.)
Then you had better become a Christian.
Agree with him all you want. I'm moving on. I've asked for definitions and I keep getting this same stone wall. You force me to go to calvinist websites to find the answers. So be it.
I'm really interested in the education value: for all of us, for lurkers, readers, participants, freepers, etc.
Gotta go, Mom. Church beckons. Don't you all do Wednesday and Sunday night church?
Shows why you were bright enough to be an engineer:>))
He knows I don't agree with mormonism. He knows I do agree with free choice. He complimented me and I accepted the compliment. What better way to open a door to The Door? Paul tells me NOT NOT NOT to cut myself off from the world; only from backslidden Christians. WM is NOT a backslidden Christian. In my book he's first time evangelism material with a pre-existing knowledge of the bible.
You also? Calvinists do not understand that their system is not biblical but philosophical and therefore open to criticism by anyone. The final appeal to the 'secret councils' is not an appeal to scripture but an 'appeal to authority' which can be questioned by anyone.
Let me state here and now, Mormonism is worse. I believe their teachings are false. I believe they will lead true believers astray.
I agree. Calvinists are at least saved (hopefully).
BUT THE FACT IS: - The do possess some of the truth. However warped we may view it, however misguided they may be, they do hold some spiritual truths that would be in agreement with all of us on this board.
I would not say 'spiritual' truths, but natural ones (Rom.2:15)
The Calvinists are just smarting because WM and I have problems with Calvinist theology.
Amen!
Perhaps most telling of all is that it doesn't seem to bother the Mormon that I'm in agreement with the Calvinists concerning Mormonism. However, this has never been a discussion of Mormonism. This was a discussion concerning truth.
Amen!
We know the Calvinists believe they have it all.
Amen!
That doesn't mean that no one else has any of it.
A theological system must deal with the problem of evil ( not make God the creator of it for some 'secret reason'.
The theist must so structure a theology as to contain views of God, evil and human freedom which, when put together do not contradict each other. In particular, theists must avoid a system in which God is said to be both good and able to remove evil, despite the system's admission of the existence of evil.Such a system will most assuredly succumb to its problem of evil.(Concise Evangelical Dictinary of Theology,p.168)Thus, since Calvinism does not make its final appeal to the scriptures but to a mysterious God who (despite depicted otherwise in Scripture) has made by His directive will every. evil act in history happen to bring about His own Glory, even unbelievers can question the reasoning behind such a system.
The feeling is mutual..and right now he is winning
Meaning? White Mountain thinks that Mormonism is following The Lord Jesus Christ. What did you expect him to say, short of rejecting Mormonism and becoming a Christian?
Parsing your quotation as a Calvinist does Scripture, yes, it is a "strange position". One might say, Calvinism is theological pretzeldom.
White Mountains insights on the philosophical inconsistencies are just as valid as any Christian making them.
The fact is you Calvinists have closed you ears to what anyone says to you. You are even willing to have God the author of sin and evil then admit how horrid a system Calvinism is!
A 'theological' system that makes it final appeal,not to scripture, but to the 'secret councils' can be criticized by believer and unbeliever, since it is not using Scriptures but a 'mysterious' God as it's defense. Even unbelievers are aware of certain aspects of God, (Rom.2:15,Acts 17)
Oh, you know, I keep forgetting you have all the answers.
On my way to choir practice this afternoon.... OH NO! Wait, the Mormoms have a CHOIR too!!! oh the humanity.
Oh, the stupidity.
The construction of your Calvinist house of cards is so fragile that you simply fear giving even in one little area.
If WhiteMountain had come in here railing against Catholicism you would have been all over it. (Save yourself some time, we know you'll deny that too.)
But instead he spoke against Calvinism.
And the Arminians speak against Calvinism.
That does not unite us in fellowship. It means we both disagree with the Calvinist position.
You know I nailed you on it, as does everyone who read the exchange. But don't worry, I don't expect you to ever admit it. Your pride will not allow you.
By the way Jerry, it's nice to know you think murder, incest and adultery are bad.
The Christians I know call them sin.
1Cr 5:6 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Don't look now but your mold is showing
Well, accept for the idea of reprobation ( 'just'leaving the unbeliever in his sin instead of a double predestination, which the effect is the same) I do not see any real difference between the two statements!
This is just pure double-talk!
Well, that was a 'nice' cyptic remark. Espically from someone who lied about me not witnessing to White Mountain!
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