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To: FreeLibertarian;RightWhale
(here is something I found in all the emails, I don't know how to include all the associated graphs, etc. Maybe you can find some use of this.)

I have done some rough calculations and simulations for questions concerning evaporation of the Gulf of Mexico and sea level.

Surface area of Gulf of Mexico: 15 million square km

Estimated depth evaporation rate: 1 meter/yr

Estimated volume evaporation rate for Gulf of Mexico: 1.7 trillion liters/hr

Normal volume flow of Mississippi R.: 23 billion liters/hr

An est. volume flow of Amazon R: 300 billion liters/hr

I have included flows of large rivers for comparison with the evaporation rate. So, for example, the flow of about 100 Mississippi Rivers are needed to compensate evaporation in the Gulf of Mexico. Only about 5 or 6 Amazon Rivers would be needed. It is stated that the Amazon flow represents about 20% of all the fresh water flowing into the oceans on earth. So given somehow that the Gulf of Mexico could be isolated from the oceans, I estimate it could take anywhere between 700 to 2100 years for the water level of the Gulf of Mexico to drop about 2000 ft due to evaporation, depending on the amount of water flowing from rivers, reduction of surface area, etc.

To isolate the Gulf of Mexico as it now stands seems to require essentially damming the lengths of the straight of Florida and the Yucatan channel. Each of these run about 200 kms shortest distance between land masses. BTW - this does not seem out of reach of immense human possibilities if we ever wanted to make a man-made dam:)

The depths of these I have been unable to determine exactly, but I estimate they could average anywhere between 2000 to 3500 ft. Is it possible that they are less, or that there is a path which is less, or perhaps there was smaller lengths due to since dissipated land mass?

This is all towards determining whether or not it could have been possible that the Gulf of Mexico was isolated or partially isolated enough so it could have a water level lower by approximately 2000 ft below today's sea level.

To get an idea of the competition between evaporation and inflow through ocean channels, e.g. through the straight of Florida, I have calculated some scenarios using a quasi-steady Bernoulli-like flow model. This allows consideration of the width and depth of channels connecting the Gulf of Mexico to the ocean with the Gulf of Mexico at a lower level than the ocean. This has assumed a drop at the channel.

1) Assume current effective channel width of 400 km, and try to maintain a difference of 2000 ft. The pressure is about 1000 psi. This is unsustainable from evaporation. It would take only about three days for the difference to decrease by 1000 ft.

2) Determine the maximum width of the channel and water level difference necessary to maintain an equilibrium with evaporation, ignoring additional inflow from rivers.etc:

Channel width
Equilibrium difference in level

------------------ --------------------------------- 400 km .................. 41 cm
200 km .................. 65 cm
40 km ................... 1.9 m
4 km .................... 8.8 m
1 km .................... 22 m
0.5 km .................. 35 m
7 m ..................... 2000 ft

3) Given the width of the channel, determine the change of the level with time for a variety of initial levels. This allows the possibility to determine time dependant scenarios, e.g. given some catastrophic or otherwise sudden event leaving the gulf very low, could the rise to equilibrium have been slow enough to take a long time >100 yrs? Or given that the channel width was decreased by some event, how long would it take to drop the level? I have attached a series of red arrow flow graphs showing the result with certain inital conditions as lines. These graphs are of the difference between sea level and gulf level in units of centimeters on the vertical scale and units of hours on the horizontal scale. The difference between sea level and gulf level means that a positive increase on the graph represents a lowering of the relative level of the gulf. Each is titled according to the width of the channel in kilometers. Note that the scale of the axis does change from graph to graph.

The summary from graphs is essentially the gulf fills up pretty quickly away from equilibrium except for the smallest channel widths less than 4 km. The symmetry from above and below equilibrium is interesting and useful for analysis. An isolation event creating a channel 4km will take about 6 years to drop the gulf by half its equilibrium level of 8.8 meters below sea level. Even a 0.5 km channel will take only about 25 years to reach half its equilibrium value of 35 meters. A 50 meter channel takes about 100 yrs to drop halfway to its equilibrium drop of about 160 m. As shown by the fact that only a 7 meter wide channel can sustain 2000 ft indefinitely, the only way to have sustain such large diifferences in depths is to have a very narrow channel - or of course, no channel at all.

42 posted on 02/23/2002 6:54:21 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
estimate it could take anywhere between 700 to 2100 years for the water level of the Gulf of Mexico to drop about 2000 ft due to evaporation,

One to three feet drop per year. Compare with the one foot per century rise in sea level due to Global Warming.

Sea level is rising slowly, but this seems reasonable since most of the ice from the past ice-age is gone already. There isn't much more to go.

58 posted on 02/24/2002 12:55:06 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: blam
Thanks

After brief discussion of your notes we have a few ideas:

Any channels entering the Gulf of Mexico should have created either alluvial planes or scouring on the bottom of the Gulf.

If the level of the Gulf was maintained for an extended period of time then evidence should exist to verify it. Possible evidence would include layers of salt and/or fresh water organisms.

Drilling cores would be possible source of evidence.

62 posted on 02/24/2002 6:31:21 PM PST by FreeLibertarian
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To: blam
I read your analysis and your assumptions seem valid enough. I would just add a couple of cautions. It seems as though your discussion is about the geolgoic history over the past 5,000,000 years (since the beginning of the Pliocene). But if you are going to tie in human inhabitation and archeology, you effectively are referring to the last ice age, which peaked about 20,000 years ago and petered out by about 12,000 years ago. (Keep in mind, I am not talking about "mini-ice ages" which are abundant in the microfossil record - I am talking about the formation and loss of continental ice sheets.)

When sea level is eustatically low, the stratigraphic record in the Gulf of Mexico records an greatly increased influx of sedimentation. This is due, in part, to increased erosion caused by the increased differential between the highstanding land and the ocean lowstand (nature abhors a vaccuum, and constantly tries to tear down the high points and fill up the low points).

Another factor to consider is that when continental ice sheets form, the weather patterns are changed. In the last glacial stage, the dry "horse latitudes" moved south toward the equator. As the ice age waned, they moved back to the north. This means that some areas which are very wet today, were relatively dry 20,000 years ago, and visa-versa. I frankly don't know how this affected rainfall patterns over continental North America, Central America, and northern South America. It just means that some of your speculative assumptions could be considerabley off - but I am not knocking you for the effort! I am just saying that there is a high degree of uncertainty involved.

Thanks again for your thought-provoking post.

68 posted on 02/25/2002 9:36:59 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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