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To: cinFLA
Another poster who is only replying with emotion. You dang free willers need to actually use your brain and read your Bible.
8 posted on 02/18/2002 9:09:19 PM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: rwfromkansas
You dang free willers need to actually use your brain and read your Bible.

Well, if you're right then we're predestined to believe in free will, so why argue?

I'm with ccmay; any God who creates billions of sentient beings and deliberately condemns all except those he "saves" to eternal suffering is unspeakably evil.

11 posted on 02/18/2002 9:13:22 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: rwfromkansas
You dang free willers need to actually use your brain and read your Bible.

Translation: I'm right, you're wrong. Not exactly open-minded are you, rw?

Well, it's not that easy, Kansas.

God wants all of His creation, mankind, to be with him in His kingdom for eternity but sin separates us from a righteous God. We cannot totally overcome sin as it enters into our thoughts as well as our deeds. The apostle Paul was well aware of this and wrote about it; you may have read his letter. Jesus is our savior as He paid the price of sin - spiritual death - for mankind. Mankind could not do it, only the perfect Christ could, and did. To claim that God 'predestined' only a portion of mankind to be with Him in paradise is incorrect in my view as it makes Christ's sacrifice unnecessary. Scripture states that He was 'raised up' (on the cross) so that he would draw all men to him. Jesus spoke of the 'narrow gate' (Christ) that leads to salvation and talked about the 'wide path' that leads to destruction (hell). If 'all men' were 'predestined' to either heaven or hell, who would need a path to follow? Christ made the point that mankind chooses which path to take, which is, ta-da...free will.

Mankind is born with free will - the ability to mentally and emotionally reject God and Christ, and many do. However, all human beings are called to God through many sources, including nature and it's reflection of God's hand. God's plan is for all to come to Him and he reveals Himself to us - often through His word - and opens the door to salvation during our lifetimes but most ignore it and will not accept the gift of salvation. That is free will.

'Predestination' is simply the fact that God choose all of mankind to be his children and live with him but our exercise of free will - God given - takes us away from Him. Our choice, not God's. At Judgement day, when our lives are examined and found wanting, only the blood of Christ will save us, not a human claim that we were 'predestined' to go to heaven so 'let me in'. On that great and fateful day, Jesus will say, "I know him" or "I know him not" but that choice will have been made by us, not God. We accept or reject Jesus Christ on our own. Attempting to 'blame' the creator for our eternal fate is foolish. To attempt to justify that point of view in order to absolve mankind of any complicity in his spiritual fate by cherry-picking scripture and offering 'proof verses' is to misuse scripture, in my opinion.

You are free to espouse any view you choose but issuing pronouncments that instruct those who hold a differing point of view to 'use your brain' and 'read your bible' do not persuade much less convince anyone of your depth of study on this spiritual and scriptual matter of overbearing importance. You might take your own advice.

A note: Reading some of the typical smug, mocking responses on this thread to an issue that has nothing to do with atheists but still draws them to a thread that is a discussion of spiritual matters they claim to find absurd and foolish is interesting. Human beings, breathing the air God provides but rejecting and mocking the idea of His existence. How sad.

102 posted on 02/19/2002 3:57:25 PM PST by Jim Scott
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To: rwfromkansas
What is wrong with replying with emotion? God is God, why do you want to apply earth-bound reasoning and logic when dealing with the nature of God? After you realize that this reasoning and logic does not apply to the nature of God, there isn't much left other than emotion.
The sooner people stop trying to convince others that their idea of God is correct by applying our human logic and reasoning, I think, the better off mankind will be.
202 posted on 02/20/2002 5:32:51 AM PST by stuartcr
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