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To: RnMomof7
And jim if I had written the words you have written there I would fall on my knees before God tonight

Here's a suggestion for you.

Since you are quick to offer prayer suggestions to those who find your bibical observations absurd and unbibical, I suggest you pray fervently to God and ask forgivness for doubting His grace and love and recasting Him as arbitrary and capricious in order to justify your futile, false, misleading doctrine. You are quick to state that God is master of all - one of the very few things in scripture you have correct - but you then deny our God...yes, deny him..His clear and well known grace toward all of His creation.

You worry more about nonsense such as capitalization and other minor matters than you do the salvation of man...who, of course, only is saved by being 'elected'. Wrong. I truly despise this patently false doctrine you keep waving around as a banner and the way you hide behind God - pretending to speak His truth - to justify your man-made, totally false doctrine of exclusion and a capricious God.

How dare you use God's precious word to promote non-scriptual nonsense from some long-dead european lawyer? How dare you mislead so many in pursuit of this filthy rag of a discredited doctrine? You Calvinists twist and turn the precious Word of God that many have died to preserve, simply to promote some foolish and incorrect pet religious theory that denies God his own love to mankind. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Please stop addressing me. I'm done with you and your stubborn and malicious nonsense. You simply seek to provoke sincere Christians with your sancitimonious blather and your hubris. You are wrong, you follow a false doctrine and I'm confident of my God's love and certainly have no need at all of some pride-driven person babbling at me over the internet about some discredited and God-forsaken religious doctrine that only a fool or a person awash in his own hubris could accept as having any validity.

I will face my Creator with confidence that He is love, not exclusion, not condemnation without hope as you folks embrace. You construct this useless doctrine...borrow it, actually...and when opposed, you display your arrogance and pride with haughty remarks about what I should pray for. This - from a person who denies almighty God His own words from scripture and instead twists meanings to suit some ancient, discredited doctrine! Your arrogance knows no bounds, does it? Surrounded by like-minded Calvinists, you bask in your own - wrongly assumed- religious correctness.

Well brother, enough. You have convinced no one. Your doctrine remains false and contrary to scripture, as it always was, even back in the 1550's when Calvin proposed it. Wrong then, wrong now.
John Calvin has a lot to answer for.

I wonder if Calvinist's ever doubt if you're really 'elected'? Maybe you only 'think' you are. What a way to worship God!

Well, this thread is getting beyond pointless and is about this close to becoming a full-out shouting match. I'm done. I'll let others refute you folks now, not that bibical truth plays any part in your doctrine but at least here you've had to actually work at your false conclusions for a change. Does you good.

Pray for yourself, brother. You are in grave error and mishandling the Word of God. The shame rests on you as you mock God's love and his gift of choice to man in salvation. I fear for those who do what you and your brothers are doing. Capitalization of God's name won't help you much on Judgement Day. Oh, but you're elected. I almost forgot! Never mind.

500 posted on 02/22/2002 9:22:50 PM PST by Jim Scott
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To: Jim Scott; RnMomof7
I wonder if Calvinist's ever doubt if you're really 'elected'? Maybe you only 'think' you are. What a way to worship God!

I see that you are still grossly misrepresentating our position.

Why should I ever doubt; I've met the Lord. The Spirit bears witness to my spirit that I am a son of God and not illegitamite.

The problem is not with the Calvinist, who maintains that God has elected him specifically without any merit on his part (i.e. grace), but with people like you who believe that you have it within yourself the power to grab hold of God contrary to scripture which does say: And there is no one who calls on Your name, who strs himself up to take hold of You.

Have you figured out how your reading of 1 Tim. 2:4 has you praying for the very overthrow of the PROPHECIES OF GOD?

509 posted on 02/23/2002 5:50:48 AM PST by CCWoody
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To: Jim Scott
How dare you claim we are not "sincere" Christians.....and WE are supposed to be arrogant? I have not called you going to hell and I am furious at how you (supposedly loving us) are calling us liars etc.
511 posted on 02/23/2002 5:58:21 AM PST by rwfromkansas
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To: Jim Scott; xzins
(I've got about 5 minutes to jump in here.)

"Your doctrine remains false and contrary to scripture, as it always was, even back in the 1550's when Calvin proposed it. Wrong then, wrong now. John Calvin has a lot to answer for."

First, it wasn't Calvin who proposed it, it was the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul, among others.

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again... I have my own Private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor." - C.H Spurgeon, A Defense of Calvinism

(You ought to read the whole sermon, thus the link. You don't show that you have the faintest idea of what we believe, maybe this would help you to be more careful in your criticism. I don't mind someone asking honest questions about what we believe, but honestly, you have done a very poor job due to the fact that you don't even know what it is that you are attacking.)

513 posted on 02/23/2002 6:00:45 AM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Jim Scott
and his gift of choice to man in salvation...

You remind me...and for years I have marvelled---at white water rafters--kayakers who paddle furiously(futilely) at the rocks--currents--depths when only Christ has conquered evil--death. Martin Luther taught your nothing saves you--all your efforts propel you further from God---give it up---hubris is right--you got a big one(nuclear engine)---propeller--paddle!

A thousand miles/second into the depthless depth of a lost eternity!

527 posted on 02/23/2002 12:43:15 PM PST by f.Christian
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