Except God has indeed shown favoritism hasn't He?
He chose to save Noah and his family out of the flood,He chose Lot out of Sodom..He Chose Abraham to become a great nation,He choose Jacob over Essau,He chose the people that would come from them ..Israel ..over all the other nations..to be the line from which the Savior would be born..He chose David to be the Kingly line over all the other lines..He chose a girl named Mary to mother the savior..
He chose to kill all the life on the earth, He chose to harden the heart of the Pharaoh, He chose to murder the males infants in Egypt, He chose to drown the army of Egypt.
I could go on but I believe you get my point..God is in charge. Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Those scriptures speak to Gods grace now being available to all nations and all people..no longer restricted to the Jews.
The Bible does teach predestination, but not the kind that you teach. The Bible does not teach that God has decided ahead of time who will be saved and who will be lost. As I've pointed out, we're free, moral agents with the capacity to accept - or reject - God's commandments.
'Predestination' or foreordination is what God did before the world began, as He determined to save man from sin through the sacrifice of His own Son. Those who answer His call through the gospel experience the blessings of that plan now in Christ Jesus. Is that too easy for you?
You are the one that is being smug and sarcastic but I will let it pass in christian fellowship
I am providing a like to another freeper post on predestination that deals with it far better than I could..
Romans 2:11:"For God does not show favoritism".
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
2 Thess. 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
John 6 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 17 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
John 15; 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Acts 13 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
1 Cor.14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Your doctrine that you so smugly gloat about and the scripture you totally twist to suit your false doctrine is misleading the unsaved with a foolish and dangerous notion that if you are predestined to hell, why listen to scripture and if you are predestined to heaven, why care what you do? It totally removes Gods grace from mankind, making us mere pieces on a chessboard which is glaringly at odds with not only the scripture itself, but the love and grace of God that all of scripture shows and you, smug in your little Calvinist cocoon, amen-ing each other and feeling, well, so 'elect', I'm surprised you can even bear to mingle with the rest of the 'unelect'.
The words "free will" do not appear in scripture..yet in the NT various forms of the word elect or election appear 47 times. My friend election does not "eliminate" Gods grace,it focuses on it.....it makes man totally dependant on it. Salvation is all of God's grace. We are all badly flawed sinful creatures we are, as the Old Testament , tells us like filthy rags before a Holy God. The wonder is that He has choosen to save any of us by His grace. I have never been "smug" .I have nothing to be "smug " about . That is your own bias talking . You write "I'msurprised you can even bear to mingle with the rest of the 'unelect'
My first thought was that you doubt your own salvation. but the truth is no one except God knows who is His. I certainly do not know. It is the responsibility of all of us to present the gospel and then to allow the grace of God to make a heart of stone into a heart of flesh..
I've spent far more time on this futile thread than I intended and I don't have the time to engage in the bible study you obviously need but I urge you and your like-minded friends that have contributed to the thread to open your eyes and your bible and see the truth of the scripture you so freely quote while misconstruing the meanings and the intent of God's plan for his creation.
Yes, friend, I'm angry when I see false teachers like the Calvinists on this thread mislead the unsaved while posing as knowledgable and wise teachers. You are no more than blind guides and do much harm and upon reflection, I'm probably more fearful of the spiritual harm you're doing with your false, man-made doctrine that you defend so vehemently than I am angry, although the smugness and typical 'holier-than-thou' attitude demonstrated here is also past my normal tolerance for self-congratulation based on ignorance and foolishness, posing as wisdom.
You and the like-minded folks on the thread have embraced a religious doctrine that is patently false, a doctrine of exclusion, which is opposed to scripture and the clear evidence of God's grace and His plan for all of mankind's salvation through Christ. Yes, despite all the self-righteous, scripture-twisting protestations you've raised, we do have free will to accept or reject salvation through Christ. God's plan is clear, you folks deny it and mangle His Word to fit your man-made doctrine and to be part of the 'elect'. It's sad, frustrating and probably ultimately futile to argue with those who embrace cult-like doctrines. You're uncomfortably close to the Jehovah's Witnesses and their '144,000' nonsense. Not the religious company I would prefer to be in.
I hope you'll read some of the scriptures I've given you here, not subjecting them first to the prism of your false doctrine or to what your religious leaders tell you they mean, but open your heart and mind to God's Word as he intended it to be read. There is always hope.
Jim you need to ask God why you are so angry with the thought that He is sovereign in all things..
He chose to save Noah and his family out of the flood...
God also had Noah preach repentance and warn people before hand......
Is it your belief that this was all done in pretense and none of these people could really be saved because God already decided He was going to drown them all...and it wouldn't make any difference.
If so, then it makes God and Noah look like fakes...pretending to give people the opportunity to be saved when in fact there was no real hope for them.
He chose Lot out of Sodom....
He also gave some of Lot's relatives the opportunity to escape out of Sodom also...but they didn't...so the above applies here as well.
Just as soon as you ask God why he said in John 3:16 that whomsoever believes in him shall be saved but then, according to your reading of scripture, he dooms many to hell, just because he feels like it, I guess. You would know this of course, as you subscribe to this fictional doctrine that God plays favorites. He doesn't when it comes to salvation, brother. On that, scripture is clear...except to Calvinists, of course, who are all 'elected'. You deny the grace of God to his creation then foolishly attempt to accuse me of denying God his sovereignty. What nonsense you post, brother.
Get real. I'm angry with false teachers like you, not God. I'm delighted that God is in control and I'm very glad that he extends his grace to me through Christ and offers me the salvation I accepted years ago. That you and your friends refuse to 'allow' God to be merciful to the creation he loves (by your false doctrine) is tragic and frustrating but never mind. Keep quoting your proof verses at each other and keep limiting God's grace to a few - as long as you're part of the few, I would guess. Your doctrine is unscriptual and destructive and I will always oppose you in God's name.
Not here, I'm weary of the sane argument over and over. I need to get off this thread as it goes nowhere. You'll pray for me, I'll pray for you -in love - and neither you or your Calvinist supporters nor me or my like-minded FReepers will change a thing, will we?
I do find the 'good teacher' pose you folks like to take in some weird attempt to patronize those who oppose your false Calvinist doctrine rather silly. Save it, please. Civility is fine but no non-Calvinist finds your doctrine believable for a moment and your scripture interpretations are well, to be kind, wrong. Let's knock off the Sunday School teacher pose, shall we? We're not your students and you folks are certainly not our teacher. We are your doctrinal adversary. I charge your doctrine to be false, unscriptual and demeaning to God's grace and love. I reject your premise of 'elect' and non-elect as well as salvation predestination.
Clear?