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To: VadeRetro
your claim of abiogenesis as a faith.

You err. I claim assumption of something, namely a pre-biotic soup, without evidence is like faith. I do not accept a lab experiment as evidence of that specific condition any more than I would use a can of Campbell's chicken broth as that evidence. Traces of chemicals or structures formed by crystallization of various compounds would be evidence of said culinary delight.

510 posted on 02/23/2002 7:51:49 AM PST by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
I do not accept a lab experiment as evidence of that specific condition any more than I would use a can of Campbell's chicken broth as that evidence.

You have a model that says organic compounds form in the absence of life. (This is absolutely incontrovertible, BTW. We've been finding the stuff in space. Yet you obfuscate on.)

In a pre-biotic environment, nothing gets eaten. In a biotic environment, what can be eaten will be eaten.

Where do you do the experiment to test your ideas?

1. In a lab, in sterilized glass.
2. In a farm pond.
3. In a cesspool.

512 posted on 02/23/2002 7:57:07 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: AndrewC
I claim assumption of something, namely a pre-biotic soup, without evidence is like faith.

I know that the pre-biotic soup, if it ever existed, is a problem for your belief system, but let's put that aside for a moment and see if we can't reason this out.

1. If we find a dead man with no apparent cause for his demise except for a knife sticking out of his back, we can reasonably assume that someone stabbed him in the back. (It could have been done by an angel or a demon from hell, but we will probably assume a human killer, based on our experience.)

2. If we find a huge hole in the ground, such as the one at Meteor Crator, Arizona, and all around it we find evidence of fused sand and scorched metalic chunks buried in the soil. We have the experience of seeing meteors. We can reasonably assume that a meteorite cause the crator. (It could have been Zeus, jabbing the earth with his pinky, but reasonable people usually don't leap to that "explanation" as their first choice.)

The foregoing are two simple examples of rational, experience-based, cause-and-effect thinking, something scientists and others do all the time. I know you're with me so far, even if you're dragging your feet a bit, sensing where this is going, so I shall continue.

If you see a planet full of life, such as the Earth, you can -- quite reasonably, based on our knowledge from chemistry and biology -- suggest that it developed over a long time from a pre-biotic soup. (Or you could, as some here do, assume that space aliens or supernatural creatures are responsible.) Occam's Razor is a useful tool in such cases.

517 posted on 02/23/2002 8:22:49 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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