T.U.L..I.P. and why I disagree with it

violitional theology | unknown | Ron Hossack

[The Green Goblin]

A God that would tell Israel to kill all the Amorite women and children is not moral... A God that would tell David not to number Israel and then cause him to do it is not moral... A God that would send his only son to be crucified and then condemn the people that did it is not moral... A God that would allow so much misery when He could stop it is not moral...

Wow, that's an excellent argument for atheism!

[Fifth Business]

Wow, that's an excellent argument for atheism!

Let me see if I understand your argument:

There is a God
He is not moral
Therefore He doesn't exist.

Nope, doesn't work. Try again.

[CCWoody]

You are so possessed with the fact that the truth is yours that you are blinded to what that truth is. Anytime someone disagrees with you, you break into your Superiority Dance. Your rhetoric is harsh, arrogant and prideful. These are the fruits by which we know you.

And here are the fruits by which we know our "opponents": in my near year here on FR, every time I have seen a clearly lost soul posting on these boards, it has been the Calvinist who have been the ones to stand up and give the Word of God. It happened again over the last 2 days. Calvinists on thread preaching gospel, 2; all others combined, 0.

I am not ashamed our their Biblical doctrine. To say I am a Calvinist is to simply say "I believe the Biblical presentation of Predestination." Therefore, as a Biblical Predestinarian, i.e. Calvinist, I am not ashamed to be labeled with my brothers. And I am not ashamed of their witness of the Word to the lost. They truly do believe that the Word itself has Power. If I were you, I would be ashamed.

BTW, apart from myself, has anybody consistently called White Mountain to repent. Or do you believe that mormons are saved?

[Ward Smythe]

If I were you, I would be ashamed. Thankfully, you are not me.

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. - Romans 1:16

But Woody, the fact that you're standing on the street corner proclaiming how holy, how Biblical you are is exactly what I'm talking about. You can sling the scriptures with the best of them (so can Satan, by the way).

But Jesus said they would know we were His disciples by our love. That has not been evident on this thread.

I came on this thread hesistantly, not wishing to prove my point as much as to understand others. I shared openly and honestly.

Instead of hearing "now I will show you a more excellent way..."

What I got was, "you're an idiot if that's what you believe."

And when I question that, all any of you can respond with is "we're right because we know the Bible better and we witness more on computer forums and after all there are more of us."

[RnMomof7]

I posted that chapter to point out that Jesus used very direct language. Ward that was love..sometimes it is more loving to point out error and sin than to pretend that all is well..

I talk like a Wesleyan :>))..after all in spite of my position on predestination I am one. I believe in loving people to Christ. I believe in the "method" .

Ward go back and in a calmed down state of mind re read doc's posts..he used those words as adjectives describing doctrines not people.Jesus spoke directly to people.Tough words ,confronting words ..spoken because He needed to get their attention.

I love you brother..you know that doc is not your "enemy".

We need to be cautious and not be "unequally yoked" with unbelievers Ward

[Ward Smythe]

Or do you believe that mormons are saved?

I never met him(her) before this thread and did not know he was Mormon.

[xzins]

Woody, what was the result with stuart?

Let's cut to the chase. Instead of your chastising Ward, answer this question. Do YOU confront abusers or do YOU ignore them?

[RnMomof7]

While I agree that the behaviour exhibited seems emotionally/mentally/etc abusive, I believe that on this forum the best way to handle him is to ignore him (at this point). I no longer respond to this abuse, and believe you shouldn't either.

Spoken like a grownup..there are lots of things and people on FR that offend me..I just stay away:>)

[Ward Smythe]

Ward go back and in a calmed down state of mind re read doc's posts..he used those words as adjectives describing doctrines not people.

From doc's Post #572 Well, the Arminian's analysis of regeneration and conversion is just as idiotic.

My New American Heritage College Dictionary defines "idiotic" as 1) Showing foolishness or stupidity. 2) Exhibiting idiocy.

And that's just one example of where he has insulted my heritage, my background. And the absurdity here is that I didn't show up here to defend the Arminian point of view. I showed up to learn more of the Calvinist point of view. But because I can't accept it hook, line and sinker I am attacked.

Go back through the posts Mom. Doc drew first blood.

[Jean Chauvin]

"It was Charles Wesley by the way..."

Sorry, yes, I did know that, but sometimes I get these guys mixed up (thinking also of John Newton).

It's nice to know, though, that you were strong enough and good enough to put that hammer down.

On the other hand, I dare not say I was good enough to put the hammer down. I, indeed, nailed him to the cross. It was my sins that nailed him there.

Jean

[RnMomof7]

Go back and see some of the things Calvinists are called Ward....We do not take it personally ...I know we are not "cold heart" "proud" and "indifferent to winning souls"..all of those things are on this tread about us..we simply answer them..

Of course he thinks Wesleyan doctrine is dumb..or he would be a Wesleyan..of course Wesleyans think we are cold hearted and indifferent or they just might be Calvinists:>).

Lets address doctrinal issues not personalities..

If doc's posts offend you then do not read them..Shadow has the right idea:>)

[Jean Chauvin]

I just returned from a funeral. This was a funeral of a daughter of a close family friend. She was 50 and died of a heart attack.

We heard her favorite songs during the prelude: Beautiful Savior, Jesus Loves Me and the like.

She also had the mentality of a 1 year old. She had not the capability to make any decisions on her own. She had been in professional care since she was 3.

Praise the Lord, she didn't need to make a decision to accept him for she didn't have the capability. He took care of all that for her. He claimed her as his sheep before the foundation of the world and this day she is with Him in Paradise.

Praise be to God!

Jean

[Ward Smythe]

It's nice to know, though, that you were strong enough and good enough to put that hammer down.

Nice retort. Although you know good and well that's not what I meant.

[xzins]

Ward, Clinton argued over what "is, is." These folks are excusing inappropriate behavior by saying it makes a difference if he says "idiotic you, or idiotic your ideas" or "satanic you, or satanic influenced you."

I say confront abusers. Always. Everywhere. Never relent.

[xzins]

If doc's posts offend you then do not read them..Shadow has the right idea:>)

I have a career full of wives who watched their husbands beat their children, but thought it best to turn their head and pretend they didn't see. And of wives who watched their husbands cheat, but thought it best to turn their head and pretend they didn't see. And of wives who were beat by their husbands, but turned their heads and pretended they didn't see AND ordered their children to pretend they didn't see.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt once, twice, and warn once, twice. But 3 strikes and I'm gonna launch. As we say in the Army, "point me in the right direction and when you're ready, pull the trigger."

I won't pretend that I don't see.

[the_doc]

So in your world it's ok to call "brothers" satanic, demonic, and idiotic?

You have taken the words completely out of context, of course.

Have you figured out the gainsaying of Korah yet?

[Ward Smythe]

Lets address doctrinal issues not personalities..

I'm all for that Mom. But like I said - other than saying why I couldn't buy into Calvinism or what I understood it to be - I did not draw first blood.

It would seem to me that Jesus' statement in John 13:35 would apply to doctrinal issues as well.

If doc's posts offend you then do not read them.

I tried that but in Post #431 he went second grade on me and threatened to go to the teacher:

I guess you can decline to do so on the grounds that you have already declared that will not post to me any more. Okay. In that case, I'll point out to lurkers that you aren't interested in the Scriptures, that you get miffed far too easily.

Instead of hitting the "abuse" button, I offered an olive branch. And you see where that got me...

[the_doc]

Re: your #602:

You need to figure out what the gainsaying of Korah is. It may help you to understand what is going on. Satan is more deceptive than you realize.

[the_doc]

No, she is pointing out that He was falsely accused.

Now, which side are you really on?

Please figure out what the sin of Korah is. It could shed some much-needed light in this situation.

[the_doc]

I have repeatedly tried, graciously at first, to state my position, why I believe what I believe and what I understand and do not understand about Calvinism. For that bearing of my soul I am insulted, my heritage is insulted, my mentors are insulted. I am called ignorant and my views are misstated.

Who has misstated your views? To my knowledge, you haven't charged me with that (even if you have leveled all sorts of other charges against me).

Please show me where in that I should have seen the love of Christ?

Please read your most recent e-mail thoughtfully. This matter is deeper than you have realized.