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Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn)

Posted on 02/15/2002 7:01:31 AM PST by HairOfTheDog

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To: HairOfTheDog
The first questions was: Who are the hobbits? This is who the Hobbits and the Shire are to me:

It is easy to see pre-World War I England in both the Shire and the Hobbits. Things valued by rural England at the turn of the century are the same things valued by hobbits -- love of land, love of family, love for one another, and love of king and country. (In the Shire, the head of each family represents the king)

The danger England faced in both wars parallels the danger faced by the Shire. The reaction of Tolkien and his boyhood friends to that danger mirrors the reaction of Hobbits when confronted by the same danger. Both the soldier in the trenches of France and the Hobbits face a superior enemy with resolve and courage. They summon up strength they do not know they possess and do what has to be done to defend their home.

But in the first chapter, as we prepare for the party, we see the Hobbits and the Shire without the stormclouds of war on the horizen. What occupies their time are silly things. A birthday party, gossip, strained relations, and greedy relatives.

After 9/11, a columnist wrote that the last decade found America consumed with "petty" things. After 9/11, that changed. Everything was different. New definitions were imposed. (For example: now when I think of heros, I think of firefights and policemen running to their deaths at the WTC. I think of passengers calling home to say I love you before overpowering hi-jackers and driving a plane into the ground)

The Shire doesn't have the jadedness that '90's America had because Tolkien did not know those times. Instead it has the ease of country living. The values and the things that would preoccupy a society before "war and modernization" drove away the innocence and replaced it with cynicism.

In the first chapter, we see the Hobbits untried by danger, terror, fear, and war. When the important things in life was whether you would be invited to the big party or not.

That will change. The crucible of events will break them open and expose what lies at the heart of the race...but that is a future they can't even envision. In Chapter 1... the ring is just a bauble to make you invisible so you can hide from the Sackville-Baggins, Bilbo is 111, Frodo is 33, and Gandalf has come to visit.

21 posted on 02/15/2002 7:42:24 AM PST by carton253
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To: HairOfTheDog
Could you please add me to the Fellowship of the Ping?
22 posted on 02/15/2002 7:42:33 AM PST by The_Expatriate
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To: The Iguana
I agree, I believe it is assumed in Chapter I that we all read The Hobbit, and know Mr. Bilbo. The first chapter serves to say goodbye to our old friend and introduce Frodo.

Interesting to me, that Frodo and Bilbo do not interact at all in the beginning, and yet we feel that they are close from the writing... interesting that Tolkien did not write a parting sequence or dialogue between them.

23 posted on 02/15/2002 7:43:04 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
May I humbly request a position on your venerable ping list?
24 posted on 02/15/2002 7:47:25 AM PST by Die Zaubertuba
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To: RosieCotton
how by nature they dislike change and "adventure".

I like how the Hobbits explain away anyone who likes adventure as being unduly influenced by Took blood.

25 posted on 02/15/2002 7:49:09 AM PST by carton253
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To: HairOfTheDog
I don't know much about Tolkien or the books, but is the LoTR written with the expectation that the reader will have already read The Hobbit?
26 posted on 02/15/2002 7:50:30 AM PST by oremites
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To: HairOfTheDog
A brief observation on first stumbling in to the Inn, before going back and reviewing the relevant chapter. "You don't know how good you've got it 'til its gone." The Shire, while home, is also somewhat stifling. Best seen in Sandyman and company. Even if its not explicitly stated yet, its clear that our happy hobbit foursome is all too ready to broaden their horizons. Oh, but how much will they miss the homey, boring Shire in the not too distant future! Be back again later, cheerio!
27 posted on 02/15/2002 7:51:31 AM PST by Wordsmith
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To: oremites
Yes and No! To have read The Hobbit gives you alot of background and the inside track on some of the inside jokes and characters that will be introduced later. But LOTR can stand alone as it introduces a new hero.

The Hobbit allows you to learn how Bilbo came into possession of the Ring of Power.

28 posted on 02/15/2002 7:52:17 AM PST by carton253
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To: oremites
If you read the FOTR prologue, you should be ok! If you have any questions, feel free to ask!
29 posted on 02/15/2002 7:52:46 AM PST by 2Jedismom
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To: carton253
In Chapter 1... the ring is just a bauble to make you invisible so you can hide from the Sackville-Baggins, Bilbo is 111, Frodo is 33, and Gandalf has come to visit.
"At ninety-nine they began to call him well-preserved; but unchanged would have been nearer the mark."

"It will have to be paid for," they said. "It isn't natural, and trouble will come of it!"

Whew! What amazing irony and it's only the third paragraph.
30 posted on 02/15/2002 7:52:56 AM PST by Carolina
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To: carton253
In the first chapter, we see the Hobbits untried by danger, terror, fear, and war. When the important things in life was whether you would be invited to the big party or not.

That was all really well said... Thanks everyone!... I have my hands full just keeping up with all these invitations and requests and arrangements!

31 posted on 02/15/2002 7:53:02 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
One more brief comment. In Shippey's book about Tolkien, its mentioned that CS Lewis prodded "Tollers" to quit lingering over the lovely early hobbit talk and get his characters out and moving down the road of their adventure. Quite obvious from this first chapter that JRR could have lingered in the Shire endlessly, and like Bilbo and Frodo needed to be pushed out on to the road.
32 posted on 02/15/2002 7:53:41 AM PST by Wordsmith
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To: carton253
I like how the Hobbits explain away anyone who likes adventure as being unduly influenced by Took blood.

And by Gandalf:

"I shan’t often be visiting the Shire openly again. I find that I have become rather unpopular. They say I am a nuisance and a disturber of the peace. Some people are actually accusing me of spiriting Bilbo away, or worse. If you want to know, there is supposed to be a plot between you and me to get hold of his wealth."

33 posted on 02/15/2002 7:54:20 AM PST by ecurbh
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To: carton253
Or Brandybuck! - "What about this Frodo that lives with him" "Baggins is his name, but he's more than half a Brandybuck, they say..."
34 posted on 02/15/2002 7:55:33 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
"...there in Buckland, where folks are so queer."
35 posted on 02/15/2002 7:56:59 AM PST by Carolina
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To: HairOfTheDog
Isn't the introduction at the beginning of the film a rough critique of World History ?

I believe Tolkien himself said it was loosely based on historical events.

36 posted on 02/15/2002 7:57:28 AM PST by codebreaker
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To: HairOfTheDog
Please add me to this list. Thank you.

I feel that the first chapter was not only an introduction to Middle-Earth for the non-initiated, but also an introduction to the Kuduk culture for those who had only read The Hobbit before. Tolkien establishes early on that Bilbo, as much as we loved him from the previous work, was very much different from his fellow Hobbits, and so this was a look at Hobbiton, in particular, up close. We see the personal politics, get a feel for the government, understand the Hobbits suspiscion for outsiders, all from this first chapter. Those who have problems later on telling Merry and Pippin apart (Why, they are as different as a Took and a Brandybuck!), have not read the first chapter carefully. I believe the good Professor wanted to flesh out this simple and healthy people, and he has a very good start in the first chapter.

37 posted on 02/15/2002 7:57:51 AM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: HairOfTheDog
Please add me to your list.
38 posted on 02/15/2002 8:00:47 AM PST by sweetliberty
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To: HairOfTheDog
Bump
39 posted on 02/15/2002 8:01:47 AM PST by Portnoy
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To: HairOfTheDog
'Pick up those prisoners! shouted Ugluk. Don't play any tricks with them! If they are not alive when we get back someone else will die too'.

Bump

40 posted on 02/15/2002 8:04:50 AM PST by Valin
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