Posted on 02/10/2002 7:40:17 PM PST by codeword
RUZGAN, Afghanistan, Feb. 10 — Afghan prisoners captured by American forces in two night raids here last month said today that they were beaten and abused by American soldiers, despite their protests that they supported the leader of the interim government, Hamid Karzai.
The men were among 27 Afghans who were released on Thursday after 16 days' detention in the American base in Kandahar, about 150 miles southwest of Oruzgan. The Pentagon has acknowledged that the raids were conducted in error, apparently because of flawed intelligence, and that the prisoners were neither members of Al Qaeda nor Taliban fighters. Local officials put the death toll at 21; the Pentagon says at least 15 Afghans were killed.
The accounts of harsh treatment from four of the prisoners, the district police chief among them, offer the first insights into the detention from the Afghans' point of view.
Abdul Rauf, 60, the police chief in this small mountain town, said he was beaten, kicked until his ribs cracked and punched by American soldiers when they stormed the district headquarters in the night of Jan. 23-24 and took him and his men prisoner.
An American officer apologized to him when he was released, he said, asking forgiveness and saying their capture had been a mistake.
"I can never forgive them," Mr. Rauf said in an interview today as he lay on cushions at his home, still clearly suffering from his ordeal. "Why did they bomb us? Why did they do this?"
[In Washington, a Pentagon spokesman said the Defense Department would not comment on the complaints until the completion of an official investigation being conducted by the United States Central Command.]
United States Special Forces stormed two compounds in Oruzgan within minutes: the local school, where men from the government disarmament commission had made their base, and the district civilian and police headquarters, where 30 police guards were based and 6 men were in the jail. Both compounds had storerooms still full of weapons left behind or captured from the Taliban. The school was crowded with four- wheel-drive vehicles and a truck mounted with an antiaircraft gun.
Among the men killed in the school, survivors said today, were two of Mr. Karzai's top commanders, while in the district headquarters, two guards were killed. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld admitted last week that American forces may have killed local allies in the raid.
Despite the Afghan government's continued support for United States operations to hunt down fighters from the Taliban and Al Qaeda, local officials here said it was time for them to end the bombing and commando raids to prevent further mistakes and loss of life.
"There is no need for more raids," said Azizullah Agha, the new head of the government disarmament commission here, who lost nine members of his own family in a bombing in November. "If for example we have information that the Taliban leader Mullah Omar is somewhere, I can go there myself to negotiate or send guards," he said.
"I do not know why they are making so many mistakes," said Mr. Agha, who is 58. He had accepted previous mistakes because they had been close to Taliban positions, he said. "But this latest one was a very big mistake," he continued. "There were no Al Qaeda or Taliban. There was just a commission that is working for the government, collecting weapons."
The governor of Oruzgan Province, Jan Muhammad, also expressed anger in an interview in the provincial capital, Tirin Kot. He said he had 30 soldiers from Special Forces working with him and living in his headquarters while 100 miles away other Americans were killing his commanders.
Chief Rauf said he was asleep with his guards in the district office when shouts and gunfire woke him at 3 a.m. He recognized American voices outside and went out, calling out in Pashto to the troops.
"I was shouting `Dost! Dost!' — `We are friends!' — but they were not listening," he said. "And I was telling my men that they are friends, and American soldiers came and started to beat me.
"I was down on my knees, bent over, and they kicked me in the chest. I heard my ribs crack. Then I was lying on my side and they kicked me in the back, in the kidneys, and I fainted."
He came round to find his hands tied and one of his men dead on the ground.
His men surrendered without a fight, Mr. Rauf said.
Two of his men interviewed today, Allah Noor, 40, and Ziauddin, 50, looked like the village farmers they were until they joined the police as guards after the Taliban were ousted. A third guard, Aktar Muhammad, was still in his teens.
All four said that American soldiers beat and punched them in the district headquarters before their hands and feet were bound and they were loaded on helicopters and flown to the base in Kandahar. There they were made to lie face down on a hangar floor and for the rest of the night were subjected to violent blows and kicking, they said.
"They were walking on our backs, kicking us," Mr. Rauf said. As he muttered a prayer, a soldier hit him on the back of the head, smashing his nose against the ground. His nose still bears the marks of a cut. Mr. Ziauddin, who uses only one name, was also kicked in the head, he said, and he showed a tooth loosened as his head hit the floor.
Mr. Muhammad said he was picked up and thrown on the ground three times by soldiers, until on the third time he fainted from a blow to the head.
"I was so afraid I did not expect to remain alive and see my family again," he said. In the morning he was put with the other prisoners in a large cage, with wooden bars and a canvas roof.
Two days later he was pulled out and put in solitary confinement in a metal shipping container for eight days and underwent an interrogation he described as aggressive. Two American soldiers guarded the open door and ordered him to sit on the floor and keep his eyes down.
Most of the men said the interrogation was courteous, however, and after the first day the beating stopped, possibly because they all told their interrogators they were supporters of Mr. Karzai.
At the end of the 16 days they were told they would be released and given new clothes, wool hats and boots. An American officer put his hands together in a gesture of apology as a translator told them it had been mistake.
"I am not angry with the Americans because that was a mistake," Mr. Noor said. "Someone gave them the wrong information."
Abdul Kuduz Irfani, the newly appointed district chief, said, "The prisoners are just glad to be alive."
But relatives of the dead men are angry and are demanding to know who fed the Americans the wrong information. "We are having a lot of trouble convincing them it was a mistake," he said.
No one will name any suspects, but officials here insist that despite local rivalries, no person from Oruzgan would have had the ear of the American forces to request such a raid.
"A simple apology will not solve this," Mr. Irfani said. "The Americans know who informed them, and that man is an enemy of this government and of this country. He should be handed over to this administration and executed."
All I have to say, is if they were beaten...I didn't get my turn....and I want my turn!
Acting on faulty intelligence the soldiers came in shooting in the middle of night with no warning and wearing maske. They shot some people. Some they shot from behind after tying their hands behind their backs. Some people they did not shoot they abducted and beat over several days.
Since the US is already paying reparations the question of whether it happened is a non-issue. It happened. Anybody who does this is slime and anybody who defends it is slime and I'll "bash" them all I want.
Ever hear of The Uniform Code of Military Justice?
1. The Code of Conduct is applicable at all times to all members of the U.S. Armed Forces, active and reserve, in the event such personnel fall into the hands of the enemy during an armed conflict. ANSWER: TRUE
2. If the enemy violates provisions of the Law of War, then U.S. forces may immediately do the same. ANSWER: FALSE
3. Extreme military necessity excuses acts that are normally considered war crimes under the Law of War. ANSWER: FALSE
4. You cannot alter your weapons or ammunition in order to increase enemy suffering. ANSWER: TRUE
5. Under both the Code of Conduct and the Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War, prisoners are required to give a captor only name, rank, identification number, and date of birth. ANWSER: TRUE
6. Enemy POWs may be killed if they threaten your unit’s safety, security, or mission, by their mere presence. ANSWER: FALSE
7. The use of napalm is illegal. ANSWER: FALSE
8. The property of enemy civilians may not be deliberately
and needlessly destroyed in the course of military operations. ANSWER: TRUE
9. The Red Cross is the only internationally recognized symbol for protected medical and religious persons and activities. ANSWER: FALSE
10. Violations of the Law of War should be reported immediately through the chain of command. ANSWER: TRUE
11. It is permissible to kill enemy troops who are attempting to surrender if the taking of prisoners is detrimental to self-preservation-such as in the case of airborne or special operations. ANSWER: FALSE
12. Maps and military documents may be taken from POWs. ANSWER: TRUE
13. Only when evasion by an individual is impossible and further fighting would only result in death with no significant loss to the enemy should surrender be considered. ANSWER: TRUE
14. A medical unit and its personnel are deprived of the protection of the Geneva Convention on the Wounded and Sick if the unit and personnel are protected by sentries or by an escort. ANSWER: FALSE
15. It is your obligation to disobey an order to commit a criminal act as defined by the Law of War. ANSWER TRUE
16. It is not permissible to fire on descending enemy paratroopers. ANSWER: FALSE
17. Personnel put on the uniform of the enemy in order pass through enemy lines. Once through they attack an enemy position wearing that uniform. Such a ruse is prohibited by the Law of War. ANSWER: TRUE
18. A platoon medic is not considered a POW if captured by the enemy. ANSWER: TRUE
19. A church which is being used as an enemy anti-aircraft battery post may be attacked. ANSWER: TRUE
20. It is permissible to use the Red Cross symbol to protect or hide military activities. ANSWER: FALSE
21. A commander may not be held responsible for war crimes committed by subordinates under his/her control. ANSWER: TRUE
22. Rules of engagement may not restrict the scope of combat operations more stringently than otherwise permitted by the Law of War. ANSWER: FALSE
23. Following an engagement, there is an obligation on the part of U.S. forces to take measures to search for and collect wounded and shipwrecked enemy personnel. ANSWER: TRUE
24. Law of War violations by U.S. military personnel are punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. ANSWER: TRUE
ANSWERS: 1-T,2-F,3-F,4-T,5-T,6-F ,7-F,8-T,9-F,10-T,11-F,12-T, 13-T,14-F,15-T,16-F,17-T,18-T,19-T,20-F,21-F,22-F, 23-T,24-T.
This is a war and soldiers aren't there to kiss and hug these people.
What article in the UCMJ did they violate?
What do you think they would have done if they captured one of ours? They would have quartered him and dragged him in front of the media and then hung him up in the center of town and then put his head on the front of a Toyota like a dead deer !
Don't you also know the Taliban published instructions saying to claim they were beaten by Americans if they were ever caught and released? Don't you think our soldiers know this fact?
Finally, so what if they got a little rough..at least they didn't kill them !
Did you even read the article? These people were not Taliban or Al Qaeda. According to the article, "The Pentagon has acknowledged that the raids were conducted in error, apparently because of flawed intelligence, and that the prisoners were neither members of Al Qaeda nor Taliban fighters. Local officials put the death toll at 21; the Pentagon says at least 15 Afghans were killed."
These people are supposed to be our allies, get that through your head. Karzai is the Interim Afghan President and these people are his own tribesmen.
I take it back. You're not insane. You're an idiot. Ever wear the uniform, Alice?
These people are supposed to be our allies....
---
"Supposed" is the operative word. I for one do not feel lucky around Persian/Mede/Arab types and so I have no problem with the means described above to keep them subdued.
Those people are dangerous, they are raised to hate us, and within 10 years time, this new "government" of Afghanistan will be our enemy, too. Mark it down.
Best to insure they can never again harm a single American, wouldn't you say?
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