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Child shot in head by off duty cop during school demo
Fox news

Posted on 02/06/2002 11:44:28 AM PST by inflorida

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To: SauronOfMordor
I also go by the view that absolutely every gun is loaded. My sole exception is when I am working on a gun is that I will have my finger in the action and even then I do not just wave it about but I will look into the muzzle of a firearm when I have a bore inspection light in it. I was also taught that pointing an unloaded gun at another human being can get one shot quite dead as they have no way of knowing that it is unloaded.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - yorktown

461 posted on 02/07/2002 12:19:47 PM PST by harpseal
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To: GovernmentShrinker
I bought a new KelTec P32 a few months ago. I've only had the chance to go out and exercise it once, but it jammed on nearly every other shot. Have to get it checked out. Also the mile long trigger pull was annoying. That said, it's so marvelously light weight that you could go jogging with it in your pocket and not even feel it. Easy to keep on hand for surprising would-be muggers, rapists, car-jackers, et al. Now if only I can get the thing to work a little more reliably . . .

Send it back to Kel-tec, they'll fix it. Or you can try to fluff and buff it some yourself. Also, it's kind of sensitive to the brand of ammo I hear, I shoot Fiocchi in mine and have never had a single problem. It seems it's luck of the draw with Kel-tecs. Check out http://www.ktog.org/ if you haven't already.

As far as Glocks are concerned, I carry one everywhere I go (well, almost everywhere). There is no other gun I'd trust my life to. If you've ever been in a high stress situation (like a gunfight) you'd know that it's easy to forget to do simple things like disengaging safeties, racking the slide, etc. Most gunfights begin and are over in 3 seconds. Safeties, racking, etc. could be the difference between life and death.

On the other hand, I'd have to admit that it's probably more likely that a negligent person would have a negligent discharge with a Glock. But you also have to remember, that it may seem like that are more ND w/ Glocks, but that Glocks own something like 40% of the hand gun market, so all things being equal there will be more incidents w/ Glocks than any other brand.

462 posted on 02/07/2002 12:38:17 PM PST by SirAllen
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To: Jefferson Adams
NRA instructors, I've found, are often just about as smug and ignorant as a lot of LEOs are.

A year or so ago, I took the standard NRA "personal protection" class (after having taken LFI-1 and LFI-2) as I wanted to get a refresher on the specific scene regarding Pennsylvania laws and what I might expect in my home area (Ayoob's courses do not go into the specifics of local laws in each little area)

The instructor was a cop and NRA certified. At one point, he unloaded his sidearm in view of the class, and then to illustrate a point in his discussion I saw him handling the gun so it swept the entire class. I cringed in my seat and afterwards spoke to him about it, but he didn't see himself as having done anything dangerous.

463 posted on 02/07/2002 1:03:16 PM PST by SauronOfMordor
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To: steve50
My experience has been the opposite, the government is a moron, therefore the people need protected from government.

You are out of step with the Fabian conventional wisdom. Turn in your national I.D. card. No soup for you!

464 posted on 02/07/2002 1:03:48 PM PST by Illbay
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To: Jefferson Adams
Now THAT'S the way to make sure your kid stays out of the "victim" class as she grows up. Kudos.
465 posted on 02/07/2002 1:04:08 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2
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To: Christopher
That's what I heard too.

(Boy, was it LOUD!)

466 posted on 02/07/2002 1:07:38 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: SauronOfMordor,jefferson adams,harpseal,squantos
All of my life "sweeping" someone with ANY gun has earned the "sweeper" a swift takedodwn to the floor full speed.

It happened to me once when I was about 16, a viet nam vet who was still "twitchy" yanked the Marlin 22 out of my hands by the barrel and then used the butt in my chest to put me on my back. I deserved it and never forgot it.

This was also the rule in the military, regardless of rank. You do NOT sweep anyone!

467 posted on 02/07/2002 1:12:59 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: RonDog
Isn't that amazing!!

As an individual that carries a gun, she should have made decisions in advance concerning situations such as dropping it. In most cases let it bounce and suffer embarrassment rather than legal charges.

Eaker

468 posted on 02/07/2002 1:43:05 PM PST by Eaker
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To: harpseal ; Travis McGee
Proper handling of firearms is a valid indicator of ones "ability" IMHO. As you stated if one sweeps himself or others , tell em in a loud and impolite manner for all to hear that such is just not tolerated.

Our local range has a disclaimer that states if an unsafe act is observed or reported your day at the range is at it's end. If you repeat an unsafe act then your gone for good.......hopefully only from the range :o)

Stay Safe !

469 posted on 02/07/2002 1:45:29 PM PST by Squantos
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To: Travis McGee
boy, I sure could tell you all some ugly stories.

If I had a dime for every time I've been "swept" I'd have Bill Gates serving me my dinner.

470 posted on 02/07/2002 1:53:45 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Squantos
"If you repeat an unsafe act then you're gone for good."

I love the studied ambiguity in that range sign!

471 posted on 02/07/2002 2:11:38 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Cap'n Crunch
The ulcers cops must get! Dang, it makes my skin crawl to think of it.
472 posted on 02/07/2002 2:12:37 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
It's no fun looking into the gaping hole of a 12 guage shotgun, or an AR 15, MP5, etc. etc. etc.

The 12 guage was the worst.

473 posted on 02/07/2002 2:18:11 PM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch
"No thanks."
474 posted on 02/07/2002 2:27:48 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
When I was teaching Boy Scouts how to shoot for their Merit Badge I told them that I didn't believe in accidents. I told them that if they shot me, I would shoot them.

I suddenly had their complete attention.

They had for, for years, been able to tell their parents, "it was an accident, They didn't mean to do it, etc. etc. They had been brought up to think that accidents are normal. Well, sorry kids, shooting someone is not normal and it isn't going to happen. I wasn't telling them the truth because I would never harm them or lay a hand on them but they didn't know that. There may be two types of people who haven't had a ND yet and those who will but my ND was when the rifle was on the bench rest and I hit the 2 pound trigger accidently and I think I may have hit the target in the black. That's the one and the only one I'm permitting myself.

475 posted on 02/07/2002 2:29:29 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Christopher
Mine happened when I was 18.

Was lowering the hammer on an .45 auto and let the hammer slip. I fortunately had it pointed toward the ground but I still have a scar on the end of my thumb where either the hammer or slide cut it.

Now that I look back on it, I am glad it happened. I was taught gun safety from a child but there is nothing like an AD (also an ND) to make a permanent impression.

I guess technically, I have had two. When I was about 11, I picked up my best friend's Daisy and asked if it was cocked. He said no so I aimed at a cowboy on tv and pulled the trigger. It put a little bullseye on the glass covering the picture tube. Every time I visited, I would see that little reminder.

476 posted on 02/07/2002 2:31:13 PM PST by yarddog
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To: Shooter 2.5
The other great benefit of training youngsters to shoot is that it is a big "reality check" for adolescents.

There are no take-backs, no do-overs. Every action has a result, there is no horseplay, it's "deadly serious".

That is very "grounding" for kids.

477 posted on 02/07/2002 2:45:07 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Cap'n Crunch
I have had a small caliber pistol pointed at me by a criminal and it is definitely an uncomfortable feeling, however something else bothered me far worse.

I was in a large gun shop basically just shooting the breeze when a guy who gave me the impression of being a little strange, wanted to look at a military sword. He took it and played with it a little then looked at me and sort of jokingly drew it back as if he were going to attack. I was 99% sure he was not serious but it scared me. I told in a firm and angry voice to put it down. Fortunately he did so.

For some reason, perhaps deep in the psyche, the sword bothered me far worse than a pistol. Of course the guy holding it made some of the difference.

478 posted on 02/07/2002 3:00:08 PM PST by yarddog
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To: SauronOfMordor
A year or so ago, I took the standard NRA "personal protection" class (after having taken LFI-1 and LFI-2) as I wanted to get a refresher on the specific scene regarding Pennsylvania laws and what I might expect in my home area (Ayoob's courses do not go into the specifics of local laws in each little area)

The instructor was a cop and NRA certified. At one point, he unloaded his sidearm in view of the class, and then to illustrate a point in his discussion I saw him handling the gun so it swept the entire class. I cringed in my seat and afterwards spoke to him about it, but he didn't see himself as having done anything dangerous.


463 posted on 2/7/02 3:03 PM Mountain by SauronOfMordor

If you took an NRA Personal Protection course a year or two ago,
it was just a warmed-over pistol course.
It taught Isosceles and point-shoot only.

There is a new course called "Personal Protection in the Home";
one would believe that Masaad Ayoob was involved in the development of the syllabus.
The current course teaches Weaver and modified Weaver only and combat sighting.
It is less than a year old.

I have taught the new course and next month will train instructors in how to teach the new course.

I personally would not trust an LEO as an NRA instructor.

We train NRA instructors never to have live ammunition in a class room!

The officer you cite is incompetent and should have been reported to the NRA Training Dept.

XeniaSt

NRA Certified Training/Counselor
A trainer of NRA Certified Instructors

479 posted on 02/07/2002 3:18:57 PM PST by Uri’el-2012
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To: RonDog
THIS PART - which seems rather important - is now MISSING from the Philadelphia Inquirer's version of the events:

My guess is that she has lawyered up and she and her lawyer know that she could be in the orange jumpsuit soon. I suspect her lawyer contacted the paper, etc.

480 posted on 02/07/2002 3:47:37 PM PST by TC Rider
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