Posted on 02/02/2002 5:55:06 AM PST by LarryLied
It wasn't the usual news headline: "Scholars Vote: God Knows Future."Thus did Christianity Today magazine summarize an Evangelical Theological Society convention that climaxed a doctrinal dispute which has been brewing for years among evangelical Protestants. At issue is whether God has total knowledge of the future or somewhat limited knowledge.
The movement known as Open Theism or Openness Theology is attacking, among other things, the classical belief in God's "omniscience" (all-knowing nature) and complete "foreknowledge" of the future. It cites the Bible to underscore God's vulnerability, limitations and responsiveness to human events and claims that traditional belief stems from ancient Greek philosophy more than from Scripture.
It's intriguing that nowadays such Protestant challenges to orthodoxy come with more vigor and originality from Bible-based evangelicals than from old-fashioned liberals.
The evangelical meeting chastised Open Theism with this resolution:
"We believe the Bible clearly teaches that God has complete, accurate and infallible knowledge of all events past, present and future, including all future decisions and actions of free moral agents."
The vote on that was 253 "yes" and 66 "no," with 41 abstentions, but the magazine said most of the "no" voters and abstainers didn't disagree with the substance but disliked targeting colleagues.
However difficult, this is no dry doctrinal debate. It affects how we understand prayer, providence, why evil things happen in this life and the nature of individuals' moral freedom. Those seeking to explore the fight should note four new books:
The latter book is the best place to start. A quick glance:
- Most Moved Mover: A Theology of God's Openness (Baker) by Clark Pinnock of Canada's McMaster Divinity College in Hamilton, Ontario, the latest Open Theism manifesto.
- No Other God (Presbyterian & Reformed) by John Frame of Reformed Theological Seminary, who is anti-openness.
- God's Lesser Glory (Crossway) by another anti-openness thinker, Bruce Ware of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.
- Divine Foreknowledge: Four Views (InterVarsity Press), edited by James K. Beilby and Paul Rhodes. This anthology features open theist Gregory Boyd of Bethel College and three critics: William Lane Craig of Talbot School of Theology; Paul Helm of Regent College, Vancouver; and David Hunt of Whittier College.
Boyd and other openness thinkers say God can't know the future perfectly and that he changes his mind in response to human events; they cite Bible passages that speak in those terms. Confusingly, Boyd insists he believes that God is "omniscient" after all.
Jeremiah 18:1-11, an example cited by Boyd and friends, has God telling the prophet to observe a potter fashioning clay and says that if Israel turns from its wicked ways, "I will repent of the evil that I intended to do."
Helm says that while openness thinkers stress Bible passages about God's dialogues with humanity, their opponents cite other passages that teach "all things" aspects of God such as omniscience and that stress his awareness of the future and his unchanging nature.
"Neither side is going to convince the other by swapping texts," Helm concludes. He believes that sinners need promises from God they can utterly rely on. Open theology, he asserts, is too shallow concerning biblical truth about sinful humans' need for redemption and God's power to provide it.
That's why it's always a good idea to seek His advise before choosing which fork in the road to take.
Yeah, hello -- Marketing 101. If you start offerring a lesser god, the competitor religions will be able to differentiate with a greater god -- and then the sheep will switch flocks. And you know what that means to the Sunday-collection plate bottom line, ehy?
So people who come to ill just didn't pray hard enough?
--Boris
I'm re-reading it now.
--Boris
Note: the presumption was already presumed too.
Huh! That's coincidental!
I, too, am out of space -- and out of time.
God's relationship with man is based on trust. Trust is the basis of building a love relationship. 1 John 4:16 "God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God and God in him."
When I trust my son, I have faith in him that he will be true to our agreement. When he turned 16, I trusted him to drive the car---I did not jump into the back seat to see if he would be true to that entrustment of responsibility. I trusted him--therefore, I had no need to see into the future to make sure he would do as I say. I had no need to consult a fortune teller because I trusted him.
This means that if my son is not true to my entrustment of him, I will suffer consequences. . .I will be affected. . .I become vulnerable. This is the hard part of being a parent. This is the position that God placed himself in when he created us as his image and gave us the potential to share in his loving nature.
It is why Genesis 6:6 reports of God's immeasurable sorrow after humanity violated the bond of trust with God.
Karl Marx did see man as an purely economic animal but he was wrong. Money is not what compels man to seek God.
Hey if, Jehovah doesn't know the future and he's not the all powerful god who created the universes, then Judiasm and Christianity would both be founded on a lie. If that we're true... I'd sure like to know it!
However, if it is true, then to hold belief in Him (& his son Jesus) just because of negative preconceptions about some of the followers who aren't living consistent with their beliefs is a pretty foolish thing... don't ya think?
Whether you like it or not, the Bible is full of prophecies (hundreds) and many of which have come true. For example, there were 30 major prophecies about the messiah (where he would be born, bloodline, how he would die, etc.). All of which fulfilled in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.
What about other Old Testament prophecies (e.g. those in Daniel which fortold of the fall of Babylon and even mentioned the names of those that would divide up the kingdom - even before the kingdom was established). Many times in the OT the future was foretold and how it was fulfilled is recorded there as well.
If this almighty God that we Christians believe in is outside of the space time continuum, then yes, most definitely he can fortell the future. If he's limited by time just as we are, then there's no explanation for those times the future was fortold by Him through the prophets.
Either He knows the future and those things in the Bible are true. Or He's not and He's limited in the same manner that we are and what we believe is a lie.
Do you have any evidence to show that no time in the Bible a prophetic statement was made which was not later fulfilled?? Or least least can you discount many of those which were fulfilled?
However, if it is true, then to hold belief in Him (& his son Jesus) in contempt just because of negative preconceptions about some of the followers who aren't living consistent with their beliefs is a pretty foolish thing... don't ya think?
There... that's more like it.
If He knows the precise future, He would be bored to death by now!
Think of you as drifting down a river. You know where you have been, you see the river banks now, but you don't know what is around the bend.
Now think of God in a helicopter above the river. He can see where you have been, where you are, and where you are going.
You are free to make the choices that you make, but God knows in advance what you will decide.
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