(TY)- That never happened.
(CR)- You never got the paperwork, or it was never done?
(TY)- No, because as I said, it had started 2 weeks before hand, and he was very vague in what he said, and I spent several hours trying to get him to tell me what was going on. It was very frustrating, but it was obvious that there was something going on.
I don't believe he was suicidal, but 2 days before it, he showed up again and did something very strange. He tossed a VCR in my car. He didn't explain why. He said he needed to get these insurance papers to me, and left. He said he would be back.
(He was) very upset. 48 hours later, he was dead. It was the last time I ever saw him.
(CR)- Now, you saw a VCR. You mean as in a machine, or a VHS tape?
(TY)- No, a VCR machine. An entire machine. If it were you, you would think "What in the world? What is he doing?'
(KR)- It wasn't a camcorder, it was a VCR?
(TY)- It was a VCR and there had been a tape in it, but I had not watched it. The VCR came up missing within 24 hours. It disappeared out of my house. I was more concerned at the time about what he was talking about. The VCR was kind of incidental and didn't mean anything to me at the time. When I went back to look for it, it had turned up missing.
(KR)- Had you agreed to his wishes to re-marry for those reasons?
(TY)- I had not agreed or disagreed. I was still trying to get information out of him.
(KR)- Was he still hopeful that you were going to do this?
(TY)- Oh, yeah.
(KR)- Then, it's likely that if he's still hopeful that you're going to do this, so you and the kids would be taken care of, it isn't likely that he would go out and commit suicide?
(TY)- No. No, and people don't realize this, but there had been several incidences where we had attempted to re-establish the marriage and, in fact, I had been with him just 3 weeks prior to this at an Awards Assembly and he introduced me as his wife. (laughingly) Which I obviously didn't dispute too much. Nobody saw a scene or anything there and said ‘Oh no, we're divorced'. No, we were on good terms. The reasons for the divorce were a little different than people expected them to be.
(CR)- Somebody wouldn't commit suicide if they hadn't done their paperwork in advance . Especially a police officer who is very meticulous.
(TY)- Yeah, and here was another thing, especially if he was intent on committing suicide, there were lots of things that could have been taken care of easily without the aid of life-insurance policies and such. Nothing was taken care of. I lost my home. Went bankrupt. You name it. He knew something was coming fast. OK? Faster than he could deal with it.
(CR)- OK. Do the children get any of his pension benefits? (TY)- No.
(CR)- Well, that's unusual.
(CR)- Now, during this time, we're talking about a 12 month span here, Terry was being called into headquarters, he was being told to get off the case, he was being threatened by his own people...
(TY)- Yes.
(CR)- Elaborate on that a little bit. What was really going on there?
(TY)- Well, there were some very other obvious statements. Terry had said, if it were not for the fact that he was pictured in many pictures world-wide, running from the building saving people, that they would have said he was not even there on the site. I think (that) was (what) initially got him started into it was-Yes, he did see some people who shouldn't have been there too quickly. Terry was there within 30 seconds to a minute after the bomb blasted. Initially, they were trying to discredit people who were down there.
(CR)-...What I was told about a year afterwards, when I had a private investigator look into it, that Terry had had film footage, pictures ,which I do support that belief, because Terry carried a camcorder, cameras, you name it, in the back of his vehicle. Most likely that he did take pictures, and did document what he saw, and probably was following up on it.
(TY)-There was lots of strange things happening...Our cars were coming up vandalized, the house was coming up vandalized, he and I both were coming up on 4 sets of flats, several times. I mean, we had people put nails in our tires, break in our back windows. I mean, just, strange, bizarre little things that I wouldn't have put in place with the bombing as any type of retaliatory activity, but after his death, it continued. OK? Terry kept saying that during the year that we had been monitored by the police department. I didn't understand why anybody would be monitoring him. You have to bear in mind that what I know at this point, I did not know at the time it was occurring.
(CR) OK. Now, obviously, both of your phones were tapped because you had some messages on your answering machine that shouldn't have been there.
(TY)- Right. That happened after his death...
(KR)- Messages like what?
(TY)- Well, (laughingly) this is really quite odd, it would be recorded messages of me either having a phone conversation or me having a conversation with another individual in person. Someone would have taped it and would play it back to me.
(KR)- In other words, if you were standing on the corner in front of Wal-Mart talking to someone, you might have a first-hand tape of that played back on to your machine?
(TY)- Exactly. Yes, and I...
(KR)- That's scary.
(TY)- It is. It's an invasion on you. You realize that you're not so...(laughingly) safe?
(KR)- And that's what they were trying to tell you...'Look, at what we can do without you even knowing it.' So, you'd better watch out.
(Ed. note- I'm going to skip a number of pages for the sake of the time-line. I'll deal with the "skips" later. The conversation is now about the day of Terry's "suicide"):
(TY)- Yes...on the 8th.
(CR)- Now, I understand what he did was he talked to some friend and said ‘I have to take all these records and stuff and I'm going to hide them out of town. I'll be leaving town. I'll see you later. But, I have to stop by the Police Department first, because they want to chew me out, again.'
Basically, cutting to the chase here. Then, he called you again and said he was being followed and he had to shake the people following him and did he describe them as, what did he say? Feds?
(TY)- Yes.
(CR)- Feds are following me. I gotta shake ‘em and I'll see you later. And he never came back. And that was on what day?
(TY)- That was on the morning of the 8th.
(CR)-That was the morning of the 8th, and in the afternoon, they found him?
(TY)- Early afternoon.
(CR)- Of that day?
(TY)- Of that day. Pretty quick finding considering the location being out near Fort Reno in a field (abrupt laughter) I thought they did some impressive investigative work there (snide tone).
(CR)- In police work, we would assume that came from an anonymous informant calling a dispatcher and saying ‘There's a dead guy in a field.'
(TY)- Yeah. And I heard that was what occurred, but nobody is ‘fessing up. The car itself was filled with so much blood that apparently when they did open the doors, it just spilled out all over the place. It was on the driver's side, on the passenger side, in the back of the car, had even filtered down into the cracks of the window. It was an enormous amount of blood.
(CR)- So, somebody was trying to put up a struggle.
(TY)- Yes.
(CR)- Now, that can't be because I'm looking at the Medical Examiner's drawings here, Tonia, and it says ‘superficial cuts on the wrists'. Superficial means very shallow.
(TY)- Right.
(CR)- Now, we'll get into that. Right? This gets more bizarre, folks. This really gets bizarre. Ok, so take it from there, the car had the blood in it and then what happened?
(TY)- Right. There was so much blood in the car, but at the scene where his body was found, there was very little blood. Ok? I don't know if everybody knows, but his wrists were slit, his upper arms at the bend of the elbow were slit, and then of course his jugular was slit, in 2 different places. In addition to the angle shot of the gun-shot wound to the head.
(CR)- Ok. Now what kind of gun did they find at the scene?
(TY)- They will not state what type of gun. Because it was not his gun.
(CR)- Now, the way I get the story here recently is, I won't say the source, but you know who it is,
(TY)- Yes.
(CR)- was that, and I didn't know this until the last couple of days, was that there was no gun found at the scene for at least an hour as the deputies and El Reno police were searching the area. And obviously they are very incompetent because when the FBI showed up a little later, they found one with a couple of minutes.
(TY)- Uh-Yes. (laughs).
(CR)- It sounds like a ‘Vince Foster' deal to me.
(CR)- And the scene is exactly how far from the car?
(TY)- The scene was a mile and ½ from the vehicle.
(CR)- Now, to get to that area, you had to go through a field, a ditch, and under a fence?
(TY)- Yeah, I went out and looked at the area. It is barbed wire fence all around it, and I can tell you from attempting to move the barbed wire, it was pretty sturdy, and it would have been pretty difficult for Terry to have done that, go through the barbed wire fence while he was cut up and bleeding, which there is no blood at that point either. There was no blood around that area.
(KR)- There was no trail of blood from the vehicle to anywhere?
(TY)- No trail of blood.
(CR)- Now, the angle of the gun-shot was from the top right above the eye-line of the right temple down through the left cheek.
(TY)- Right.
(CR) It was a contact wound, but left no powder burns and the exit wound was as small as the entry wound which shows a sub-sonic bullet of small caliber, possibly a .32, and yet Terry's normal service weapon was what, a 9mm Glock?
(TY)- A 9mm Glock.
(CR)- This does not compute, already. Let's jump ahead beyond that little bit. Terry was not taken to the Medical Examiner's office. The Medical Examiner came to the scene. Is that correct?
(TY)- That is correct.
(CR)- And he did his drawings from what he saw at the scene.
(TY)- That is correct.
(CR)- But, he left off a couple of things. He left off some rope burns on the neck, and some handcuff marks on the hands.
(TY)- Yes. And on the ankles
(CR)- On the ankles?
(TY)- Yes, there were some rope burns on the ankles.
(CR)- Ok, so he's trussed up, thrown over a fence, and drug out in this field. Obviously drug. We know that. Why? Because you found out later, totally by accident, that there were some mud and grass in the wounds. Why don't you tell us about that, and tell us how superficial these cut marks were.
(TY)- Ohh. Well, actually, I'm going to correct you on something I found out by accident, twice. It came from 2 sources and then there was an additional 3rd one who told me his body had been drug from one location to another, and about there being no blood at the scene, and that person was a law enforcement officer.
(CR)- Ok, he was examined at the scene and
(TY)- Examined at the scene.
(CR)- Chief Gonzalez came out, by helicopter along with an FBI guy. Who was that?
(TY)- Bob Ricks.
(CR)- Bob Ricks, now the head of The Department of Public Safety here in Oklahoma, appointed by Governor Frank Keating.
(TY)- Right.
(CR)- Now, they show up and how long was it before all these FBI agents come in and took over the scene?
(TY)- From what I'm told, almost immediately. As soon as they got there, the El Reno and Canadian County Sheriffs were shooed off the scene. Practically escorted and I was told about 9 vehicles of Federal agents came in.
(CR)- Wait a minute, the deputies didn't find a gun and they'd been there about an hour or more.
(TY)- Yes, they had and I was told there was almost 30 police officers out there combing the area for a gun and found none.
(CR)- Ok.
(TY)- They couldn't even find a knife.
(CR)- Ok. So, when the gun appear on the scene.
(TY)- Almost immediately when the other agents arrived on the scene. ‘Oh, here it is. Ya'll just missed it (sarcastic tone).' (laughs)
(CR)- But, we still don't know what kind it was, and no one can see it.
(TY)- No.
(CR)- Ok.
(KR)- Do you know exactly who said that or akin to that ‘Here it is, you've missed it'?
(TY)- No, I don't know the actual person.
(KR)- Was it ATF or FBI?
(TY)- No, I don't know that either, but I do know at least, let me put it this way, I have been told there were some ATF at the scene. And I won't state which particular ones that was, but I have been told.
(KR)- The person who found it is not necessarily the person who threw it out there.
(CR)- Of course not. That would never happen.
(TY)- (laughs)
(CR)- Not in the real world. Ok. Now, the body is taken not to the examiner's office, but to where?
(TY)- To Pollard funeral home.
(CR)- Ok, and what happens there?
(TY)- His body was stitched up, cleaned up, make-up put on to it. And mind you, the family was totally unaware that the body had ever made a trip to Pollard Funeral Home. It was supposed to go to Russ Warm (sp?) Funeral Home in Watonga.
(CR)- Ok, now, no autopsy was done. We're talking a police officer out of OKC that generates all this attention, but he doesn't go to the Medical Examiner's Office. There's no medical examination done, other than the sketches and there is no autopsy.
(TY)- Right.
(CR)- Ok, so he goes to a funeral home instead where they stitch up these superficial wounds. Why'd they do that?
(TY)- Uh- you got me (laughs).
(KR)- Why was the OSBI not involved in any of this?
(TY)- Well, I don't know that they weren't.
(KR)- I see. Ok. You haven't checked out any of their records to find out why he went to...
(CR)- My OSBI contact said they didn't know about it, until afterwards.
(KR)- Oh.
(CR)- It was on Federal property. That's the problem. That's why they were never called in. In fact, they didn't want anybody there.
(KR)- Isn't it odd that it would be on Federal property?
(CR)- Yeah. Now, Tonia, Terry didn't like this area, did he?
(TY)- No, he did not. We lived in that area. Terry grew up in that area. I remember him, at one point in time, saying that lots of bad things went on over there. It's right across from the prison. The Federal government owns all that land. He wouldn't be caught...excuse me...I was going to say ‘He wouldn't be caught dead there', but I guess he was. This would not have been someplace he would have gone.
(CR)- He was actually superstitous about this place since he was a child.
(TY)- Yes, he was.
(CR)- So, it would be frightening for him to even be there.
(TY)- Yeah.
(CR)- So, if somebody knew that, that would be a place they would want to take him to interrogate him.
(TY)- Absolutely. Yeah, anyone who knew anything about him, knew Terry had been very vocal about that place.
(CR)- We found out one of the reasons they stitched up these wounds was because they couldn't even use embalming fluid on him, because the wounds were so deep.
(TY)- Oh, yes, Craig, that is right.
(CR)- Ok, so that means the superficial notations on the Medical Examiner's drawings were not correct.
(TY)- Right.
(CR)- Ok, now we've got all of these cut wounds, and any few of them would have been fatal and then we have this gunshot wound that goes the wrong direction through the head.
(TY)- Um-hmm
(Ed. note- There are enough holes in this one to qualify as a Clinton denial, but let's skip to some connections with Terry...)
(CR)- Well, you know, its just incredible that this can go on in this day and age. Terry is not the only one here. We've got a number of deaths surrounding the OKC bombing. We've got Dr. Charles Chumly(sp?), who went down in a very strange plane crash in Texas. He was one of the first Doctors there and he refused to cooperate with the government requests. We've got one of the dancers here in Tulsa, from one of the local dance places (strip club), who went on national TV as saying she had seen McVeigh and Brescia and all these other people. Her name was Shawn Tia. She was found "suicided". She was supposedly, and I saw the crime scene pictures, she supposedly took an overdose of drugs, because she had a big, bad drug problem (snide tone). And yet, there were handprints of blood in her apartment. I don't know how you do that with an overdose of drugs, but anyway. We had several others that have turned up dead since then. It's a higher ratio than one might expect. Quite similar to the Kennedy Assasination where the witnesses began dropping like flies. Now, I heard your friend, and you (Tonia) know who we are talking about, told me the other day they had like 28 that were suspicious. Is that correct?
(TY)- Uh-Yes. There is a list out here. I know off the top of my head of about 8, 8-10 (laughs) right off the top of my head. I was not even familiar with the one you just stated. That's new information to me, though. But, I'll tell you right now that Terry and Dr. Chumly were definetly connected. They had been involved together, going over pictures, information on the bombing, and that has been denied on several occasions. In fact, Gonzalez was the most verbal that no one could prove that Terry and Dr. Chumly had had any connection. But, I'll tell you this, and this information just came to me yesterday, I'm working on getting this substantiated, but apparently Terry and Dr. Chumly had a joint safety deposit box together. And I will not state where, but this information did come to me yesterday.
(KR)- Say that again.
(TY)- A joint safety deposit box at a local downtown bank
(KR)- Terry Yeakey and Dr. Chumly who was one of the first Doctors on the scene, who died in a plane crash very mysteriously. And I talked to the NTSB investigators on it, and they said there is nothing wrong with this airplane, other than it was all bent up and broken. They could not find a mechanical reason for the airplane to come down from 6000 feet straight down into a cabbage field in Shamrock, Tx.
(KR)- Now, how odd is that, Tonia, that they would share a safety deposit box?
(TY)- Very odd. Another thing was, people tried to say Terry and Chumly didn't even know each other. Chumly had worked on Terry's back several years ago. They had met each other prior to the bombing. But, for them to have a relationship where they would have a safety deposit box together- no.
(CR) And they both would turn up dead, and they both had some knowledge that perhaps nobody else had, sounds like to me that they both got together and ...to put some of that possible evidence in safe keeping. (TY) Exactly.
(KR)- Has it never turned up?
(TY) -Well, uh, the deposit box was closed right after Terry's death.
(KR)- By whom?
(TY)- I do not know. I haven't gotten that verified yet.
(KR)- How could anybody do that, other than those 2 or their immediate family?
(TY)- That's still the question here, but this information just came to me yesterday.