[Poohbah]

And do NOT make US citizens pay the price for terrorism. If they want to ID somebody, make people who are not citizens have ID. If they are caught without it, deport them. Plain common sense.

May I kindly raise a plain common sense objection?

If the non-citizen isn't carrying the ID, and merely says "I am a citizen," doesn't that kind of negate the idea of having any ID to begin with?

[sweetliberty]

American citizens already have a wallet full of ID which is cross referenced on us evey time we turn around by people who have absolutely no business knowing anything about us. An illegal alien is not going to have those kinds of ID. Any American citizen could easily prove it if need be. The idea of a national ID card is nothing more than a sinister plan to monitor, control and invade every element of our lives. It will do nothing to deter illegals. So I'll say it again; put the burden of proof on the illegals...not on citizens.

[heleny]

sweetliberty wrote: If they want to ID somebody, make people who are not citizens have ID. If they are caught without it, deport them. Plain common sense.

Poohbah wrote: May I kindly raise a plain common sense objection?

If the non-citizen isn't carrying the ID, and merely says "I am a citizen," doesn't that kind of negate the idea of having any ID to begin with?

Noncitizens are already supposed to carry their passports and travel documents at all times. (Permanent residents only have to carry their green cards.) Violators may be fined or detained. Other countries require the same for their tourists.
I agree with your objection that the policy is stupid because anyone can claim to be a US citizen without proof, and illegal aliens of course will not carry documents to prove that they are here illegally.

[RightWhale]

Can't you tell just by talking with someone if they are native-born American or not, whatever their ethnicity? Of recent immigrants, only the very best Russian spies are able to speak flawless American. In many cases you can tell what part of the country natural born citizens grew up in. ID cards are weak in comparison. If someone has a speech impediment, of course, that changes things a little, but for most a simple conversation will ID them.

[testforecho]

The Heritage Foundation Homeland Security Task Force was formed days after the September 11 attacks to meet this urgent need. This comprehensive study incorporates the recommendations of the Task Force for securing a vulnerable America.

Chapter 3: Top Priorities for Improving Intelligence and Law Enforcement (PDF 204k)

Excerpt:

Priority #4: Strengthen the visa approval and border security mechanisms. The first line of defense against terrorists today often involves a determination by a consular officer or Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) inspec-tor that an alien should or should not be allowed to enter the United States. Legally entering the United States was remarkably easy for the September 11 terrorists. The visa approval and entry?exit processes must be strengthened, as should the ability of LEAs to enforce existing immigration laws against aliens who are in violation of those and other laws. Consular officers must have more information upon which to make a visa decision. At the same time, the Secretary of State should leverage the approval of a waiver as permitted by the Visa Waiver Program to enhance the anti-terrorism cooperation of other countries. Mechanisms to enforce immigration laws against aliens who violate the terms of their visas or who enter the country without inspection also should be strengthened.

Priority #5: Reduce the opportunities for identity theft and fraud in state identity document systems. False documents continue to be a major problem, and the terrorists involved in the September 11 attacks showed that they will exploit those States with systems most liable to fraud. Any State that continues to run a document system subject to fraud and abuse places the lives of all Americans in jeopardy. Current procedures for the issuance of identity docu-ments, including driver?s licenses, birth certificates, and death certificates, must be tightened and a mechanism developed to deter and prevent identity theft.

---

AAMVA Special task force on ID security

Press release: here

Arlington, VA Today the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators? (AAMVA) Task Force on ID Security announced its recommendations for strengthening and unifying inconsistencies in the North American driver?s license issuance process.

Recommended Strategies

AAMVA recommends eight broad strategies:

1. Improve and standardize initial driver?s license and ID card processes.
2. Standardize the definition of residency in all states and provinces.
3. Establish uniform procedures for serving noncitizens.
4. Implement processes to produce a uniform, secure, and interoperable driver?s license/ID card to uniquely identify an individual.
5. Establish methods for the prevention and detection of fraud and for auditing of the driver?s license/ID processes.
6. Ensure greater enforcement priority and enhanced penalties for credential fraud.
7. Seek U.S. federal and other national requirements for legislation, rule making and funding in support of AAMVA's identification and security strategies.
8. Establish public and stakeholder awareness and support.

[Marine Inspector]

If the non-citizen isn't carrying the ID, and merely says "I am a citizen," doesn't that kind of negate the idea of having any ID to begin with?

Not really. The people asking the question will know he is lying, when he says "I am a citizen". There are very few good illegal alien liers.

The interviewing/interrogation techniques we use in INS are very effective. It is very easy to tell if someone is lying to you and then trip them up in the interview.

I'm considered an armature, only be working for INS since 1997, and I catch them 99% of the time.