Suicide at MIT raises parents' ire

USAtoday ^ | 1-24-02

[mikenola]

CAMBRIDGE, Mass.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

then had a pleasant dinner with her at a favorite Chinese restaurant

First accutane drives a kid to pile a plane intoa building, now MSG makes someone torch themselves.

Where is the FDA to lockdown society (sarcasm)

[Lacey]

AMEN. Been there, done that. Having been in a situation similar to these MIT parents, I know their frustration and outrage. If a few more lawsuits could get these stupid laws changed, then I'm all for it.

[Savage Beast]

Eliminate the Liberal confusion, and health care workers might share ideas and other resources with you and figure out a way to be of help. Most intelligent adults can judge, within reason, whether people are being meddlesome or are concerned and trying to be helpful. Maybe they're afraid they'll get sued. Maybe they're afraid they won't be politically correct. Maybe the legal and political climate are such that it is not possible for them to rely on their own judgment and common sense (thanks, Liberals).

[garbanzo]

If a few more lawsuits could get these stupid laws changed, then I'm all for it.

It was lawsuits that got it that way in the first place. When you're an adult, you're an adult and you get to decide on your medical treatment.

[ctonious]

It's the best I've found for capturing the feel of the place

My grimmest memories were exam days on cold, gray winter mornings, marching across the Harvard bridge along with hundreds of others towards the 19th-Century-ish double Domes of The Institute, as if called to our doom by the Morelocks in "The Time Machine".

[gunnedah]

Wicked Liberals with no souls.Reap what we sow!

[Idlewise]

I had the identical problem of placing my daughter into a treatment center for depression and what I felt was dangerous activity to her health. The center advised me that since she was 16 years of age she did not have to stay, and of course she chose not to.

All my rational thought went down the tube as I realized that I could not use this treatment center as a resource regardless of the old adage that a child is under the parent's care and responsibility until age 18.

In other words, I did not have the leagl authority to give my daughter the medical attention she needed but if she did something that caused property damage or some how hurt another person, I would be financially responsible to pay the damages.

Going the legal route, before a judge to prove she needed the treatment, would be timely and I don't think that would have helped her get better.

This comes from the rights for children movement in the State of Florida.

If one looks around, you may discover that some children seek emancipation from home and find refuge in little communities. These groups or communities also provide refuge for runaway children and the next generation of drug dealers, prostitutes male and female, and instruction in street survival.

Anyway, my daughter was going down that road and by the grace of God only, she is well past that issue and living a resposible adult life.

If the state continues to restrict parential authority and parents do not fight for their children's well being then we surely have a secular village raising our children with us paying the taxes to support it.

[csvset]

They brought her a TV and VCR to cheer her up.

They say the stellar scientific institution, which they paid $34,000 a year for Elizabeth's education, should be held responsible for medical malpractice, gross negligence and wrongful death.

The parents sound as though they're pissed about the 34k. Were they able to return the vcr & tv? I suspect they knew nothing about their own daughter and this was the case long before her attending MIT. I also suspect Elizabeth was pressured to excel all costs and couldn't face telling her parents she was having problems.

[Don Myers]

bttt

[Don Myers]

"However domestic enemies--Liberals and their decadence--will--if the American people do not cleanse the U.S. of them, and soon."

American life has become shallow. The only meaning to life to many people is sex and drugs. They live for self and doing what "feels good." Life has no real meaning now and has become a drudgery. This is the America that the left wanted, and the one that they now have.

[pubmom]

Their own attorney admitted she had severe emotional problems that began in high school.

[twyn1]

All this was 20 years ago - so I have no idea what the Institute is doing now.

First year is still Pass/Fail, and most classes are graded on the curve, plus you get an extra GPA point for all classes (A = 5.0 rather than 4.0).

My son is in his final year at MIT, and was just accepted into the Masters of Engineering program. His first year was a shock, when he went from being the "smartest" kid in high school, to just one "kinda" smart kid among thousands.

MIT does all it can (legally) to keep parents informed and to provide help & counseling for the students. I agree with a previous comment, the suicide is the fault of the person who commits it, but we just can't seem to accept personal responsibility in this society anymore.

[KneelBeforeZod]

Indeed, suicide has long been the third leading cause of death for college students, after accidents and homicide.

and.....someone was thinking that cancer, emphesema, alzheimers, heart attack or strokes would be third?

[KneelBeforeZod]

Did you read the article? Sounds like she was a danger to herself.

[Egg]

Its a shame when someone reaches the point of feeling that they're better off dead than alive.

I've always wondered why suicidal students at colleges and universities don't just quit school and try something else rather than end their lives. Maybe they don't think life would be meaningful without a degree. Maybe the stigma attached to failing one's parents (particularly for Asian youths) by dropping out of college is too much for them to handle.

"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." [Matt 11:28-30]

Indeed, lighter than the load this poor girl was trying to carry on her own.

[KneelBeforeZod]

In Asian countries, simply not getting into college sparks a good number of suicides. In the US, knowledge isn't "cool" in the first place.

[Kozak]

The point is she has to be felt to be an IMMINENT danger to herself. That means someone, frequently a police officer, a psychologist or social worker as to be convinced that unless that person is likely to hurt themselves RIGHT NOW they get to walk. It takes some convincing. It is also damn difficult to sort out the truly dangerous from the vast majority of teen age angst out there. For ever one that goes on and completes a suicide, there are probably thousands of kids who make dramatic statements and threats. You cannot slam all of them into a commital. We don't have anywhere near the space or resources to do that. Nor is it neccesary for that huge number of "Drama Blue" teens. In fact it would be harmful as that drastic a responce would actually reward the behavior and make it more likely to occur the next time. Look this young woman clearly was more disturbed then the folks helping her judged. But without all the facts I don't have any idea if the decision they made was reasonable or not.

[boris]

I'm course XVI too, SM, 1975.

--Boris

P.S. We got tired of the Maxwell's Equation t-shirts, and wanted to produce one with the full viscous Navier-Stokes equations...but two problems interposed themselves:

(1) We couldn't get enough people to pre-order, and
(2) Any readable type size resulted in the damned things wrapping around to the back of the shirt!

--Boris

[dpwiener]

My son is in his final year at MIT, and was just accepted into the Masters of Engineering program. His first year was a shock, when he went from being the "smartest" kid in high school, to just one "kinda" smart kid among thousands.

That's always been MIT's great strength and challenge. I went through the same thing in the late sixties, suddenly finding myself surrounded by classmates who were all tops in their high school classes (and in many cases were singular geniuses). That level of competition and association is in large measure the explanation as to why MIT (and similar schools) provides such a good education.

But it is also a psychological shock, and many students have difficulty dealing with it. Especially since a lot of MIT students are introverted and lack social skills, having concentrated and excelled at academics instead. It probably didn't help that Elizabeth Shin was female. I don't know what the current statistics are, but women have historically constituted a small percentage of MIT's student population, which creates an additional dimension of pressures.

It's very sad that Elizabeth Shin committed suicide, but trying to blame MIT is absurd. If they had wanted a psychologically safe and unchallenging environment for their daughter, her parents should have sent Elizabeth to the local community college.

[LJLucido]

Let's see. A school can't violate the confidentiality of a 14 year old who inquires about birth control pills or who requests an abortion. But MIT must violate the confidentiality of a 19 year old who attempts suicide. Man, being a school administrator must be tough these days!