Not Yours to Give

personal archives ^ | Provided as courtesy by Charles Starr for Congress

[sit-rep]

BTTT...

SR

[Chapita]

*************"Not to mention first hand knowledge."************************************

Does that mean that you witnessed the scribes in action? If so, that makes you eligible for direct testimony!

[Poohbah]

Chapita me lad...

I haven't been able to locate any record of this speech in the Congressional Record for the periods 1827-1830 or 1832-1834 (the periods Mr. Crockett served in Congress).

[AppyPappy]

No I met Jesus.

[Jeff Head]

People read this piece and believe it is true because they want it to be true. But there is no documentation. Some dime store novelist made it up over 100 years ago.

Where is your documentation that it was made up 100 years ago by a dime store novelist?

[Chapita]

Maybe it is a bogus story! My point is that it does have a lot of references and has been used by a whole lot of different entities.

We should all know by now that history can be manipulated by any agenda; and sometimes we don't have to wait for it to have occurred before our births.

[Chapita]

Good on ya! But a Moslem may dispute that. Even a jew!

And I will take your word for that!

[Poohbah]

Maybe it is a bogus story! My point is that it does have a lot of references and has been used by a whole lot of different entities.

So, you seem to be arguing that if a story is mentioned a lot on the Internet, it somehow becomes fact.

Objective reality determined by majority vote. OK, I've heard it all now...

[BlackbirdSST]

Thanks for posting this. There were some erroneous references made to this on other threads a few day's ago, could've used it then. Blackbird.

[Chapita]

***************"Objective reality determined by majority vote."*****************************************

What historical event is not?

[Poohbah]

You're misusing the term "majority vote."

[Jeff Head]

I do not believe that all speeches were covered in the recordings of the Congessional Record from this time period. An appeal to the congressional record may well not yield every speech given from this time period at all and therefore is not necessarily a valid reference.

It may be likely that the speech giver themself would have the speech written down or recorded. The best reference would be a document or reference to a document that indicates they either had in their possession or had read the written speech. I do not believe that exists either, but am not familiar with the bibliography of the referenced book. One thing seems certain, Ellis wrote serious non-fiction later in his life and this was a product of it.

So, in the end, this particular speech, and perhaps many more, become a matter of specualtion and belief. The arguement should be couched in those terms rather than the unforgiving, absolute terms that some seem to want to couch it in IMHO.

I for one believe that is would be like Crockett to do this and believe he could have said it. Did he actually say it? Can;t say and don;t know.

Regards.

[Chapita]

How so?

I keep thinking of the argument here a while back whether FDR covered up his fore-knowledge of Pearl Harbor attack.

[Chapita]

What can't be credibly challenged since history is most often a story of events before our time?

[Chapita]

Like AppyPappy, I believe in the Bible, but there are a whole lot of people in this world who will dispute it's validity!

[Eternal_Bear]

rural legend?

[Poohbah]

The key is to recognize the difference between a simple majority vote and multiple converging lines of evidence. Some lines of evidence have greater weight than other lines. The argument in favor of a Pearl Harbor conspiracy does not have converging lines of evidence to support it unless said evidence is folded, spindled, and mutilated to fit the theory. The primary documents from the period, when examined as objectively as possible, do not support the thesis.

The Congressional Record is the primary source document for all things uttered on the floor of the House and the Senate. The absence of this speech from the Congressional Record deprives the argument for its authenticity of any support.

[Chapita]

Do you think the author of the book could have gotten by with this kind of falsehood in those times?

[Poohbah]

Do you think the author of the book could have gotten by with this kind of falsehood in those times?

Yes, quite easily--because they actually did. There was quite a "quote-manufacturing" cottage industry going in those days. Many statements attributed to George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Daniel Webster, and other great figures of American history in reality trace back no further than the pen of some Gilded Age writer.

[Tokhtamish]

All of this is beside the point. The major issue before us is this....

What exactly is a sockdolager ?

For instance, John Wilkes Boothe knew to time his assasination of Lincoln to the line in Our American Cousin....

"You sockdolagizing old mantrap !"

at which burst of pure hilarity the house would be rolling in the aisles, completely distracted.

This issue must be addressed.