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To: Demidog
Understand one thing. Virtually all religious Jews, Zionist or not, accept the principle that "there are 70 faces to the Torah". This means that there are 70 ways to read (interpret, see, evaluate) everything contained therein - from the literal to the metaphorical to the metaphysical to the bible codes and on and on. Moreover, each one of these 70 faces are all considered valid and intentional. Jewish scholarly research is based on this principle, and Jewish scholarship is all in all the effort to discover these 70 faces.

This is more or less how the joke about 2 Jews having 5 opinions comes about.

So when I say this rabbi stands on his ground, I am acknowleging that he may indeed have valid points. It's subject to interpretation and opinion. Jewish scholarship is extremely difficult -- sometimes two very valid points are in seeming contradiction with each other. But we're talking about people's hard core beliefs and the redemption of the world, so devout people are going to argue these beliefs vociferously and to their last breath. I don't have words of ill will for this rabbi or his opinion. I just think he is wrong. I am no Torah scholar either, just a layman who derives immense pleasure grappling in depths of understanding found in Jewish thought.

156 posted on 01/20/2002 1:08:53 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine
. I don't have words of ill will for this rabbi or his opinion

I do. He is either dishonest, or he is a very ignorant man. If you are going to advocate for the dismantling of a nation-state you better get you historical p's and q's together - or stick to flipping burgers.

157 posted on 01/20/2002 1:12:25 PM PST by Lent
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To: monkeyshine
To clarify what I think are his valid points is that the Jews need to return to God and Torah to hasten the arrival of Messiah. Where I think is wrong, and wrongheaded, is in believing that Zionism stands in the way of that.. and it is reasonably believeable that his efforts to dismantle Zionism will not advance the religiously necessary endeavor of returning Jews to God. Only his work towards returning Jews can accomplish that. In other words, I believe his efforts are being wasted at best, and at worst he is encouraging animosity towards Jews in so far as non-Jews perceive Israel and Zionism as representative of Jewish interests.
159 posted on 01/20/2002 1:15:45 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine
I understand your position and as I stated before I really appreciate your intellectual honesty and politeness in expressing it.
165 posted on 01/20/2002 1:25:40 PM PST by Demidog
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