Posted on 01/20/2002 8:45:33 AM PST by Demidog
That you think I would refer to this as Zionist terrorism is absurd. The Bedouins stole from everyone. Not just the Jews.
Ah. Of course, since you're a loon who hangs out at a website for "Athentic History", you know that this is true. Why is it that you skinhead toons never learn to spell, Spotrider? Is there some kind of unhealthy additive in your shaving cream, perhaps?
Although I see you folks have removed the "Synagogue of Satan" ad. Did it become simply too embarassing, even for you?
Your statement was misguided and ahistorical. If you can't explain yourself without pulling out every canard and Arab Islamic piece of propaganda then so be it.
Huh?
You are naughty and you show no understaing of a complex problem.
My thought exactly.
I don't see why you insist on Talmud or Torah support for or against your post. It should be clear to a thinking person that there were arguements for both the "religious conservative" Jews position which you cited and the Zionist position. But don't think that the Zionists went for their position with a bloodlust. They asked for the support of the UN and got it. The religion of the Jews has ample room for discussion and disagreement. This is what Talmudic scholarship is about. That so many could take a position that resulted in death, (and results in death today) is of interest. But more of interest to philosophers don't you think? I believe that the Jews have been seeking a just response to war from the day they declared their statehood. There were reasons for forming that state then, and they persist today. To seek a "lasting Middle East Peace" one must do more to address today than to look into the past and ask what might have been. This is what Islam is doing today, offering peace if a hundered years of western culture would be pulled from "their" lands. It is a worthy experiment that they propose, but only that. Real life is played outside the laboratory.
I direct my comments to specific statements not to red-herrings.
The man is entitled to his beliefs and from a religious perspective he stands on his ground. Zionism is a political movement and many deeply religious people avoid politics because it is a diversion from religious duties.
I'm not sure how much you understand his point, as it is grounded in particular interpretations of Jewish thought. Obviously he believes, as many Zionist Jews also believe, that peace in Jerusalem will come when Jews return to God and His commandments. I fail to see how Zionism and a return to God are mutually exclusive. In practice it is true that much of Israel is secular in nature. However, there is nothing inherent in Zionism that demands it remain so.
I would question the rabbi along these lines: Should the Jews return to God and His commandments within the framework of Zionism, or in spite of Zionism, in what way would Zionism negate this spiritual renewal in the eyes of God? I don't think he has any grounds to say that it would.
The rabbi believes that the Messiah will come when the Jews redeem themselves by returning to His word. Zionism does not necessarily preclude that eventuality. He appears to believe that Zionism stands in the way of this return, but I don't see that as so. It may be a convenient diversion from God for some, but it's a faulty argument to condemn Zionism as a result. Zionism did not turn people away from God, but it may have fulfilled in some people what was missing. His efforts would be better suited towards bringing Jews back to God than at dismantling the state of Israel. He will not achieve his goal by discrediting Zionism! That is where he is off base. His effort should be aimed at hastening the Messianic era, which can be attained only (from his perspective) by doing his utmost to bring the Jews back to God.
Finally, and in a different line of thought, there are also many Orthodox Zionists who differ in interpretation. The largest such movement that I know of are the Lubuvitchers who believe that the return of Jews to Israel and to God are the signs that the messiah is immenently arriving! May God hasten his arrival and bring peace on earth.
Because it is the premise of the speech.
But I believe he is saying just that. That what must come first is a return to God and then the rest will come as promised.
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