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To: Demidog, tex-oma
First of all PAL :) I didn't claim that the Palestinians deserved a state because Israel had been brutal and I, like you believe that to be an irrelevant fact regarding their ability to direct their own destiny. (If that's even possible). If I gave that impression I apologize.

BTW, I just wanted to say that I didn't see anything for which you should apologize. Mainly, I was using your post as a segue to some points I wanted to make about the Right of Revolution, and I probably did a poor job of making that transition.

Lemme boil down my long 2 posts into something a little more compact:

1.) A Palestinian Arab State in western Palestine (i.e., Israel) cannot be justified on the basis of Legal National Claim. On the Legal basis of National Claim, Israel has the rightful claim to the West Bank, not Arab Palestine. Arab Palestine has claim to the East Bank (Jordan).

2.) Okay, so if it can't be justified on National Claim, we would have to find justification for it as a fundamental Human Right. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." Trouble is, it is only Just to institute Government which is less oppressive than the status quo -- using the standards of the American Declaration of Independence as the guide to determine "better" or "worse", because those standards are just and right. None of the current Palestinian Revolutionary organizations are seeking that goal.

Hence, the Palestinians don't have a National legal-claim to the Land, and their current Revolutionists don't fulfill the universal Human Right criteria of Government, either.

So, under the status quo, they have no right to a Sovereign State on either count (other than Jordan, per National Claim).

35 posted on 01/19/2002 1:35:25 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Israel has EVERY RIGHT to her nation. What you easily dismiss is that Palestine does not. Pretty weak argument at 2AM in the morning.
36 posted on 01/19/2002 1:44:56 AM PST by Buckeroo
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