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To: freeeee
I politely disagree. I haven't a problem with religious people. Many are my friends and family. The only problem occurs when some of them attempt to impose their will upon others through coercion.

I am not sure what you mean by coercion. Many Libertarians seem to think that freedom to express religious views is coercion. Sure I am against the use of government force to impose religion, but government, with the blessing of Libertarians, use the government to surpress individual religious views. Free speech is only free if it is non-religious.

32 posted on 01/15/2002 7:26:37 AM PST by Always Right
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To: Always Right
but government, with the blessing of Libertarians, use the government to surpress individual religious views. Free speech is only free if it is non-religious.

No libertarian would use the government to supress any views. Hell, most Libertarians wouldn't use the government for anything!

I've not taken any crap from any of my Libertarian bretheren for my Christian worldview. In fact, I've found them an excellent group to discuss such views with.
34 posted on 01/15/2002 7:29:59 AM PST by WindMinstrel
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To: Always Right
Many Libertarians seem to think that freedom to express religious views is coercion.

I respectfully disagree with this. This describes many left-wingers generally, because they're uncomfortable with religious messages. Libertarians you have freedom of speech and of worship. We do not believe you have the right to not be offended or the right to be free from the uncomfortable opinions of others. Don't like it, don't listen. The clause in the constitution that says "no establishment of religion" is a prohibition of state mandated religion. It does not mean the government should divorce all religion from government activity.

36 posted on 01/15/2002 7:30:51 AM PST by Liberal Classic
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To: Always Right
Many Libertarians seem to think that freedom to express religious views is coercion.

I respectfully disagree with this. This describes many left-wingers generally, because they're uncomfortable with religious messages. Libertarians you have freedom of speech and of worship. We do not believe you have the right to not be offended or the right to be free from the uncomfortable opinions of others. Don't like it, don't listen. The clause in the constitution that says "no establishment of religion" is a prohibition of state mandated religion. It does not mean the government should divorce all religion from government activity.

37 posted on 01/15/2002 7:30:52 AM PST by Liberal Classic
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To: Always Right
Many Libertarians seem to think that freedom to express religious views is coercion

No they don't. Its only coercion(and a true libertarian could only see it to be) if public money is bein used to "support" the views.

Now, you do not have the right to trespass on private property to "witness". If there are "public laws" about where you can loiter or whatever, that may preclude you from, lets say, standing on a street corner, or on a College campus "sharing your views".

True libertarians don't care what you believe, and they only ask that you recirprocate that. Now, that does not mean I believe you do not have the right to approach me on the street, and present your views to me. You certainly have that right. I, just as well, have the right to ignore you, if I choose to.

Its only coercion when money is taken involuntarily from me, and given, well, to anyone for any reason.

39 posted on 01/15/2002 7:38:09 AM PST by FreeTally
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To: Always Right
I am not sure what you mean by coercion.

Physical force used to obtain compliance. For example, some religious people would outlaw contraception if they could. They would gladly use physical violence to prevent or punish me for buying/selling/using it. The same goes for material they deem obscene. That's what I mean.

Many Libertarians seem to think that freedom to express religious views is coercion.

I certainly don't share that view. Keep in mind that while I am an ardent free speech defender, and that applies equally to religious views, these views cannot be made through government, because this nearly always involves tax money to provide a forum. I see this as a parallel to coming to my door, sticking a gun in my face, and forcing me to pay for speech. This is wholly unacceptable.

As Jefferson wrote: "that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor, whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness, and is withdrawing from the ministry those temporary rewards..."

This in no way means that that religion has no public place. Stand on a soapbox on a street corner and proclaim your faith, pay for advertisements of all sorts, etc, These are in the public arena, but aren't paid for by money gotten through the use of force against unwilling sponsors.

Sure I am against the use of government force to impose religion, but government, with the blessing of Libertarians, use the government to surpress individual religious views.

Only government sponsored speech. Speaking of your own accord and with your own money is your unalienable right, and I strongly defend that as much as my own.

45 posted on 01/15/2002 7:43:26 AM PST by freeeee
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To: Always Right
Sure I am against the use of government force to impose religion, but government, with the blessing of Libertarians, use the government to surpress individual religious views.

I disagree with this comment, quite strongly. First you state that you are against the use of government force to impose religion, to which all Libertarians both religious and non-religious agree. Then you make the totally false claim Libertarians would use government to suppress individual religious views!! Pure ignorance! I guess you are not always right.

The right to express ones religion is just like any other property they may have, as long as the rights of others are not impinged, in Libertarian government you are free to worship, who, how, or what you may. If your religion is honorable and just, the Libertarian Government is you best defender and protector, being absent of both coersion and suppression.

61 posted on 01/15/2002 7:56:58 AM PST by scottiewottie
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