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To: NATE4"ONE NATION"
In the interest in continuing to be open minded, let me ask you this:

Are the events of I Thessalonians 4:13-18 (described by dispensationalists as the "rapture", but self-described by the text as the "coming of the Lord".) seen by preterists as future or already fulfilled?

This is something that I have not yet to see explained in Sproul's book. I think that I could be in agreement with a "partial fulfillment preterism" if this event is seen as being yet to occur. If preterists see it as already fulfilled in the first century, exactly what event fulfilled it?

13 posted on 01/14/2002 12:23:38 PM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Jerry_M
If preterists see it as already fulfilled in the first century, exactly what event fulfilled it?

Christ addressed this in His description of the events of this time.

2 views here:
1. The sudden lack of apostolic teaching/writtings indicate that a "rapture" did occur in AD 70.
2. A "rapture" is symbolic as described by Jesus in
Matt 24:16 ...flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. 19 And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath.

There is nothing about anyone escaping this tribulation mentioned by Christ except by these means.
Who would flee? Christians. Because they would be the only ones to heed His voice.

Christ then describes it like as with Noah:
.Matt 24: 37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, [and the Christians fled to the mountains] 39 and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left. [see again verses 16-17]41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.

Why watch if we are going to be taken forcefully by surprise?
Because the "taken is only in relation to perception. Those who did not know to flee would percieve they were taken when they actually, without hesitation (vs 16) fled to the mountains.

Note:
Paul also said it WOULD NOT be a surprise to the Christians:
1 Thess 5:3 When people say, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape.[but not to the Christian]
4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief. 5 For you are all sons of light and sons of the day; we are not of the night or of darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober.

Once again admonished to "watch" by Paul, this time, for an event which will overtake us? Forcefully?
No, they were to flee so they had to watch.

Be weary of "partial-preterism". They make the same mistake.

Luke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,[AD 70] then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it; 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written.

This includes Daniel 12. The best writing on the resurrection and timing of these there is. Daniel 12 puts all 3 events (resurrection, rapture, tribulation) in the same time frame.
24 posted on 01/14/2002 12:51:09 PM PST by NATE4"ONE NATION"
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To: Jerry_M
Are the events of I Thessalonians 4:13-18 (described by dispensationalists as the "rapture", but self-described by the text as the "coming of the Lord".) seen by preterists as future or already fulfilled?

Most Preterists see the Second Coming as a future event. There are some who are called "Hymenaen Preterists"(II Timothy 2:17-18) (they usually call themselves "Full Preterists") who see the Second Coming as fulfilled in some sort of sense and that this world will continue on ad infinitum.

This link has some articles that discuss the issue:

Eschatology at www.reformed.org

35 posted on 01/14/2002 1:17:32 PM PST by Right_Wing_Mole_In_Seattle
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