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To: Architect
von Mises, in his “Socialism”, proves that even in a perfect world, The State is incapable of performing the objectives which we set out for it. This is because it has no way to measure the progress of its endeavors. There is no yardstick by which we can judge progress so it engages in movement for the sake of movement. This we call bureaucratic waste. This in itself is unacceptable – but the truth is far worse.

Nonsense. If we set limited, well-defined objectives for the state we can determine whether those objectives are being met satisfactorily. Those who expect government to provide a paradise on earth are bound to be disappointed; but I am not one of those. (By the way, I was not aware than von Mises was an anarchist; would he have accepted the label?)

People are not perfect. They have foibles and weaknesses. The State, by its very nature is evil.It is not a reflection of the Public but rather a perverse and distorted amplification of the Public's worse tendencies.

You remind me of the gun-grabbers who say that a gun by its very nature is evil. Guns are tools; they are neither good or bad unless used for good or bad purposes. Likewise, any human organization may be used for good or ill. The state is evil when it does evil.

Here’s a definition of a state for you: a State is an agency that exists for the distribution of stolen goods to politically favored groups. It takes money from the productive through taxes and distributes it to groups that are well connected. Since it rests on a foundation of theft, it necessarily is corrupt. All its actions serve to increase the amount of theft and create new groups of parasites to live off that theft.

Your definition is, of course, a caricature. (Who says that a government has to tax?) Nor does it apply to governments alone: individuals and non-governmental groups are perfectly capable of theft.

The primary mechanism that the State uses to incite one man against his fellow is War. In fact, the only thing the State is capable of is war and destruction. Nock said that war is the health of the State. At each war, the State increases its power and pushes the individual under its control a bit further. WWI brought the Income Tax. WWII turned it from a class tax into a mass tax. The power of the State increases. The freedom of the people declines.

The state did not create war; it might be more accurate to say that war created the state. You said as much yourself when you admitted that there are no anarchies because they have be conquered. That admission makes the rest of your argument pointless: why bother with an arrangement that cannot survive in the real world?

151 posted on 01/14/2002 7:05:58 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Logophile
I'm leaving on a business trip and I'm afraid that I do not have the time to continue. I'll be back on the weekend. It in the meantime, thanks for the conversation. It's been fun.
156 posted on 01/15/2002 12:59:59 AM PST by Architect
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To: Logophile
"...the state is an anti-social organization, originating in conquest and concerned only with confiscating production.... There are two ways of making a living, Nock explained. One is the economic means, the other the political means. The first consists of the application of human effort to raw materials so as to bring into being things that people want; the second is the confiscation of the rightful property of others....

"The state is that group of people, who having got hold of the machinery of compulsion, legally or otherwise, use it to better their circumstances; that is the political means." Nock would hasten to explain that the state consists not only of politicians, but also those who make use of the politicians for their own ends; that would include those we call pressure groups, lobbyists and all who wangle special privileges out of the politicians. All the injustices that plague "advanced" societies, he maintained, are traceable to the workings of the state organizations that attach themselves to these societies."

FROM HERE

162 posted on 01/16/2002 8:00:32 AM PST by Aurelius
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