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To: tonyinv
I'm not talking about bad companies. I'm talking about the fact that Afghanistan is probably a pretty good modern picture of how the world looks without modern governments. It's hard for warlords and capitalism to thrive simultaneously.

This is actually a dividing line between libertarians and conservatives. Conservatives see human nature and realize that peace, capitalism and prosperity are impossible without organized coercion. One out of every fifty boys is an aspiring warlord--and if you don't have the organized means to squash them, they screw everything up, including local trading in public stocks.

Libertarians seem to me to imagine that we can just work everything out if only everyone would sign contracts. That works great until some neanderthal with one-hundred buddies carrying sticks with nails in them says "Contracts, I no got to show you no steenking contracts." Libertarians have a much more optimistic view of human nature than conservatives. I can only suppose that they believe that once government is washed away, human nature will change and the neanderthal's followers will see the light and start businesses. I, on the other hand, think human nature will revert. Certainly, all the empirical evidence of history suggests the conservatives are correct.

Capitalism **as we know it** is wholly dependent on organized coercion, such as that provided by the government. Without that organized coercion--private property rights protected by the state, contract rights enforced by the state, predictable organization to society in ten years provided by duly elected constitutional government--capitalism would be a pale shadow of itself.

Would capitalism cease to exist? No. People would still trade. But they would be trading beads, not derivatives.

135 posted on 01/13/2002 2:54:37 PM PST by ffrancone
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To: ffrancone
Capitalism **as we know it** is wholly dependent on organized coercion, such as that provided by the government. Without that organized coercion--private property rights protected by the state, contract rights enforced by the state... capitalism would be a pale shadow of itself. That is exactly right! I do not know why you contradict yourself next:

Would capitalism cease to exist? No. People would still trade. But they would be trading beads, not derivatives. Capitalism is defined by property rights, free trade is something else.

138 posted on 01/13/2002 3:01:30 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: ffrancone
Capitalism **as we know it** is wholly dependent on organized coercion, such as that provided by the government. Without that organized coercion--private property rights protected by the state, contract rights enforced by the state... capitalism would be a pale shadow of itself. That is exactly right! I do not know why you contradict yourself next:

Would capitalism cease to exist? No. People would still trade. But they would be trading beads, not derivatives. Capitalism is defined by property rights, free trade is something else.

139 posted on 01/13/2002 3:01:33 PM PST by TopQuark
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