What about victim's past in Rink Rage killing?

Boston Globe, Mike Savage ^ | 1-11-02 | kurtz

[abandon]

I understand the duty to retreat is fairy common. It is a duty to all of us, in order to reduce violence. Again, it doesn't apply to your home (or, perhaps, to your place of business).

My understanding of it is that if you have the opportunity to retreat, safely, with no risk of further injury to yourself (let's say if the other guy is on the gorund and could not run after you, you can't keep hitting him, rather, you have to walk away), you have to do so.

Whether or not you could do so safely is up to the jury.

[wardaddy]

If a male in this world makes a habit of retreating then he will endear himself to victimhood as surely as the sun rises in the east. Strategic retreats are an entire matter altogther.

I understand your almost Zen approach but I don't cotton much to it.

[Deguello]

"Wirey ones" brings to mind Billy Martin. Known for his bar fights, he would attract the bigger arm chair athletes whom attempted to best him. Didn't quiet work out that way for them.

Many times, when a party to the first fight returns it is they who are killed. Junta returned to find Costin maybe to inflick pain, but I doubt death. Be it death was the result. I back for conviction of involuntary manslaughter.

Swedegirl wrote that emotion has to play into this. One must always maintain a level head about himself or regain it very quickly in a situation.

Yes, I have three kids but I do not charge out against others except that pesky kind that gets on my roof at night. One of these nights I'll catch him and scare him but will not harm him.

I am not a Lawyer, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn once.

[wardaddy]

Keep your head and breathe deep through your nose. All that adrenaline can get folks panting thru gaping mouths quickly. Also remember those who wish to trash talk really don't want to fight ....they are just selling "wolf tickets" or geeking themselves up. Folks who are seriously pissed and wish to brawl usually just wade in.

[stainlessbanner]

I'm a FL Cracker. I think fighting was considering "disturbing the peace" - against the law.

The fact the Junta returned shows premeditation!

[Space Wrangler]

From everything I've read about this case, it sounds to me like the victim got what he had begged for for years. I've known a dozen or more guys like the victim, and eventually, their mouth ends up writing a check that their a$$ can't cash. Sounds like Costin decided to rage against a guy who could back it up, and unfortunately, he lost his life. Sad, yes, but a situation of his own making. Of course this is Taxachussets, and Junta will probably be found guilty.

[js1138]

I understand there are several British soccer teams bidding for his services as a fan.

[abandon]

I understand your almost Zen approach but I don't cotton much to it.

I wish I knew what a "Zen approach" was.

[AppyPappy]

You don't beat a guy to death by accident. The smaller guy wasn't accidentally walking into a punch. Of course, we could get his side of the story but.....he's dead.

[wardaddy]

I agree....in the Red Zone...Junta would have a better chance of at least copping to a plea that didn't carry a 20 year stretch.

When I was coming up and there was a fight between grown men and one died and no weapons were used or the winner wasn't a prizefighter or the like, then there weren't even charges brought. I personally never saw one like this but heard of a few. Usually from a broken neck or a ruptured temporal artery and hematoma...or a choke-out.

[wardaddy]

Reminds me of that Brit footballer in the movie Lock Stock and 2 Smoking Barrels......now just from the looks of that Cro-Magnon fellow....I would look for a hasty retreat like another FReeper posted on this thread.

[ElConservadorLoco]

You are right. It is like a poodle going after a rottweiler. It doesn't make sense for the small guy to keep doing that.

[wardaddy]

Maybe I'm wrong but you seem to be advocating pacifism for anything short of mortal danger to yourself or family. That's your perogative...just I don't share in it.

[wardaddy]

Sorry but I disagree. I can't say for sure that the big guy is truly innocent but many folks have been killed by one good punch to the temple or an uppercut that snapped their jaw so hard it damaged their cervical spinal cord or brain stem. It's not common but happens.

My original question in starting this thread was I didn't know until yesterday that the victim had a history of picking fights....including 2 convictions. That's mitigating to me at least.

[connectthedots]

It was the alleged victim that had a criminal record. The defendant in this case apparently was charged with assault in 1993, but the charges were dropped. One must conclude that those charges were not valid, so the defendant in this case does not appear to have any criminal record.

I was the subject of a criminal referral for intimidating a judge and prosecutor about 18 months ago, but the prosecutor decided it would not be a very good idea to file charges with the court. Probably had something to do with the fact that I would have defended myself and called about 10-15 judges and prosecutors as witnesses and had them asserting their 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination within about five minutes each.

[abandon]

Not at all. I am no pacifist. It's the law that requires retreat, not me.

[wardaddy]

The victim had a history of being "game". He just picked the wrong guy this last time. It's a shame for all of them.

[FR_addict]

I thought he came back to get his son. He may have been afraid that the kids from the other team would go after his son again, but that's conjecture. I didn't have time to listen to most of the trial.

I heard on tv that the victim's father killed one of his other sons and was charged with manslaughter. They also said the victim had a history of spousal abuse.

I'm not sure about the accused, but supposedly he had a charge of assaulting a police office, but it was dismissed.

I was prepared to be against the bigger guy, but after hearing some of the case, I think it may have been self-defense.

[wardaddy]

I think the law varies jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Imminent danger sounds like grounds to fight back for me....but I wouldn't much go for allowing humiliation either even though I realize that isn't grounds. Ditto for revenge.

Sorry I called you the P-word.

[connectthedots]

I think the worst case scenario is that this guy will be convicted on involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to a very short time in prison or maybe only probation.

While the judge may not have allowed the alleged victim's criminal and mental histories in as evidence during the guilt phase of the trial, they will most likely be allowed for the penalty phase.