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HP customers furious over missing XP recovery disks - If you break it, buy another one...
Silicon.com ^ | Thursday 10th January 2002 12:43pm | Sally Watson

Posted on 01/10/2002 6:46:47 AM PST by colette_g

Angry Hewlett-Packard customers have forced the computer manufacturer into a U-turn after it scrapped recovery disks for its latest range of Pavilion PCs.

HP ditched the standard backup CDs in favour of installing Windows XP recovery files on a partition on the hard drive, prompting scores of users to complain.

Customers posted irate messages on HP's technical support site and bombarded the manufacturer with phone calls demanding to be sent the disks.

One customer wrote: "I really think that HP is putting out a raw deal when you buy their new XP systems and you don't get any recovery CDs. What happens if the warranty runs out and the hard drive physically dies?"

Another Pavilion customer returned her machine in disgust. "One person from [HP] support said I would have to purchase a retail version of XP if my hard drive failed. Another said I could purchase a hard drive from HP with XP preinstalled, but could not tell me how much it would cost," she wrote.

Customers complained that the move could jeopardise recovery following damage to the hard drive and would also prevent deliberate partitioning of the drive to add a second OS like Linux.

According to HP's product description recovery CDs are included in the Pavilion package. But when silicon.com reader, Ian Rowe, contacted HP he was initially told that CDs for the model did not exist.

An email from customer support told him: "HP recommends that you do not replace the hard disk as it is preloaded with Windows XP. The operating system will be lost if the hard disk is replaced. If you further wish to replace the hard disk, please purchase a retail version of Windows XP from your reseller and install it on the new hard drive."

Rowe told silicon.com: "From the moment I bought the PC, to the current time, it is not mentioned that you will not be able to upgrade the hard disk in the PC. Certainly nothing in any agreement that states that I am not entitled to do so without purchasing a new copy of XP."

Contrary to HP's advice, Microsoft claims that even if XP recovery files on the hard drive are damaged or lost, the company can use its authentication technology to identify legitimate users and replace the OS for free.

Under pressure from angry customers, HP began sending out CDs in late December. But according to a spokeswoman for HP UK, recovery disks will only be provided for customers who complain and will still not be included with the original PC.

"The recovery data is now stored on the hard drive, and you're not usually going to lose the hard drive if it crashes," she said.

But this explanation is unlikely to pacify angry customers.

"I bought HP because they stood for quality and getting a good piece of equipment for the value," one Pavilion user wrote on HP's message board. "When cutting corners like this starts affecting the morale and attitude of customers, then nobody wins."

Have you had problems with HP? Or recovering Windows XP? Let us know by posting a reader comment below or emailing editorial@silicon.com


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To: Poohbah
IF Mr. Hewlitt or Mr. Packard were still alive, this sort of crap never would have been allowed to happen.

If Mr. Hewlett or Mr. Packard were still alive, you woudln't be witnessing the cluster f*** of a so-called merge with Compaq in the works either!

Attention HP Board of Directors: FIRE THAT DUMB B**CH CARLY FIORINA!!!!

201 posted on 01/10/2002 7:49:24 PM PST by usconservative
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To: Stentor
"I installed XP for the kid of a friend. No more Visioneer One Touch scanner. The Microsoft spammers around here are about to make me puke."

My Konica Q-Mini digital camera hasn't had TWAIN support since Win95 (even Win98 isn't supported). Yet, the exact same camera (except for the trim and the ID bits the camera's firmware sends the driver), when sold under the Canon Powershot 350 badge, has NT support.

Who should I haul before the tribunal for this Great Injustice? Bill Gates, I presume?

If your stomach is so weak that you can't control it when confronted by the fact that no company can be expected to maintain endless driver support for third party hardware unsupported by the OEM vendor, then I suggest you find yourself a less stressful line of work.

I'm thinking "buggy whip salesman", or maybe "Get a Horse!" bumpersticker print shop.

202 posted on 01/10/2002 7:49:42 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: Stentor
"Assuming MS has served this purpose, 'it's time for them to go.'"

And they are. They're going all over Linux and Mac OS even as we speak.

203 posted on 01/10/2002 7:53:57 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: Harrison Bergeron
The goofy Gateway CEO meeting with the talking cow (with a man's voice btw, what's up with that?)

Most people don't speak cow?

204 posted on 01/10/2002 7:57:54 PM PST by cidrasm
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To: B Knotts
Even tough every system they bought had a legal, licensed copy of WinNT, it wasn't transferable to another system (by the agreement)! They had to go to MS and buy roughly 1500 (tranferable) corporate licenses of Windows NT Workstation!

You make an excellent argument for migrating to Linux.

I'm no huge fan of MS corportate policy or licensing, but you mananged to make a statement here makes no sense at all. You know that there are 1500 workstations, and nothing else...

Think about the business costs for a company with 1500 employees in a switch-over to a new OS, with a new look and feel, and all new apps... The cost in loss of productive time would be astounding! Then you need to know what applications the company needs. In many cases, no Linux application exists that can take the place of some of these canned apps. So now the company will have the added costs of paying to port over applications. It wouldn't be cheap...

Before making a statement like that you need to know what line of business the company is in. In this case, it's a hospital, and the costs would be enourmous...

I don't mean to be chiding you, but tech people have a tendnacy to make these sweeping statements, without knowing what the real costs involved would be. I used to make the same mistake, until I learned about something called "the business cost." Remember that unless you've got a company like EDS, which sells computer time, the IT/IS department is like the "black hole of Calcutta" to the beancounters. They keep shoveling money in, and get no direct return on their investment. Of course, most of the companies business is highly reliant on computers, but they don't generate revenue directly. Making a change like migrating to Linux would disrupt business like you wouldn't believe!

Mark

205 posted on 01/10/2002 8:00:57 PM PST by MarkL
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To: cidrasm
"Most people don't speak cow?"

Maybe next year he'll wear a fez and talk turkey.

206 posted on 01/10/2002 8:01:01 PM PST by Don Joe
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Comment #207 Removed by Moderator

To: Cyman
I was always fairly satisfied with my treatment. But in the last year I have had trouble with numerous vendors including IBM, SuperMicro, TigerDirect, Aberdeen, and Dell to name a few. I think this is a trend that is here to stay

Add Compaq to the list. Over the last 3 years we've bought 12 desktops and probably 15 laptops and most recently 3 new servers.

The server we bought in March had a drive failure in August. I called Compaq at 3:00 PM and ordered the drive, which they assured me would be overnighted. Next morning, no drive. I call them and they say, oops sorry, maybe tomorrow. The kicker is that Compaq has a parts depot within 2 miles of our office, that had the drives. But since we had not bought 'compaq care' we weren't elgible for a depot drive. 2 hours of screaming produced the drive.

3 weeks later a power supply failed on a server only 4 days out of the box. Call to Compaq, sorry we're out of those, we'll try to get you one from one of our vendors. I asked if they had any new servers in the warehouse. Of course they did, I told them they should start taking them apart.

That was when we started buying Thinkpads.

208 posted on 01/10/2002 8:10:41 PM PST by TC Rider
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To: Leroy S. Mort
Actually .... you're right BUT I'm getting lazy in my old age
209 posted on 01/10/2002 8:23:33 PM PST by clamper1797
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To: mercy
Now I'm sticking with Corel for the same probably useless reasons. It's not a perfect world. So what.

Sounds like we're on the same page. I bought a new P4 Dell last summer. It came with a coupon for XP. I installed it without a hitch and it works fine for me. I still like Corel - just seems like a better product for me.

210 posted on 01/10/2002 8:44:06 PM PST by centexan
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To: Don Joe
Let me guess: you live(d) in Boca, your life was going just fine until whatsisname died in that plane crash in Dallas before they had wind-shear warning systems, and instead of blaming Big Blue for dropping the ball at that point, you blame Uncle Bill???

No in fact I live in LA and my life is just fine period.

I blame nether big blue or Bill Gates for anything.

Bill Gates is nether God or Satan he just a guy that makes software some good some not so good.

But if you think Bill Gates and THE MAIN REASON for the PC boom then AL Gore invented the Internet.

I have purchased Microsoft products for years and think there just fine.

But if some one buys a computer and a OS you should get a copy of the OS in case you need to reinstall it.

And that OS should allow you to upgrade your hardware and not balk because the OS's copy protect thinks your bootlegging it on to a new system.

And an OS sure as hell should not lock out other competing app

Look it a free world and anyone can buy and use anything they want to buy.

But my option Microsoft's XP adds very little of benefit to the end user but a lot to Microsoft benefit...

I get the impression your option is any thing that anything Microsoft want to sell is the great thing since sliced bread an Bill Gates is a god, if that is your option, I disagree.......

So let the market decide

211 posted on 01/10/2002 10:24:40 PM PST by tophat9000
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To: tophat9000
Darn, I bumped the post button before that last post was ready
212 posted on 01/10/2002 10:29:28 PM PST by tophat9000
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To: SamAdams76;tophat9000
Well, DUH! If your friends RTFM, or even ran the XP compatibility wizard, they wouldn't have had to tear their hair out. It is a well known fact that drivers and software compatible with Win98 and before need to be upgraded for XP, because XP is a BRAND NEW operating system that is not necessarily backwards compatible with the drivers and software from previous systems.

Your friends are like most people. They are too damned impatient to take a few extra minutes to do things right. That's why there are millions of VCRs out there with the date flashing. Then when things go wrong, they quickly blame the manufacturer. Computers are very sophisticated devices and they require a little knowledge and patience.

############################################################################################################

First Microsoft DOS built itself on the back of the IBM hardware and it's software apps base.

Microsoft DOS didn't make it big by porting is OS to other hardware platform did they?

The formula in the PC boom was Microsoft software (DOS) IBM firmware(BIOS) & Intel hardware(X86 cpu) and IBM was the big boy that made the PC the standard.

Other then back engineer the IBM bios with small changes so they could win in court that they were not violating IBM's copyright (The fact that IBM was the big bad guy at the time is,in my opinion, the reason they lost)

Did Bill Gates cry over this.. Hell no..(nor should he) The IBM BIOS his OS ran on had become public domain by court order.

Unless this happen there would be no Compaq, Corona, or any other IBM clones for his non-exclusively licensed OS to run on.

Now he could have try to port his OS to other hardware platform but then he would not have that nice big base of app for IBM to run.

Microsoft is in the place it is today in good part because IBM's BIOS was "pirated" and the court let it stand.

##############################################################################################


If only more people understood these two points.

Bravo!

213 posted on 01/10/2002 11:00:46 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: tophat9000
"I get the impression your option is any thing that anything Microsoft want to sell is the great thing since sliced bread an Bill Gates is a god, if that is your option, I disagree......."

I'll simply say that I am being incorrectly characterized by that gibberish.

214 posted on 01/10/2002 11:05:15 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: Publius6961
Upgrades is the heart of the matter. Hell 50% of upgrades to Windows 98 fail and require some re-installation of Windows 98/Office 2000. Without recovery disks I would basically never be able to try an upgrade without expecting to spend a couple of days in the blue.

Carly was a PC hire from a failed company and will definitely take Hp back to the garage from which it sprang. Unfortunately, this time the garage will contain no entrepeneurs.

215 posted on 01/10/2002 11:12:38 PM PST by Righty1
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To: Don Joe
Gee, folks, it isn't that hard. I am not an expert but have been building my own computers for a year now. I put XP-Pro on a box I built myself from a new mobo and processor and older parts. I RTFM and downloaded patches/drivers first. Took me two leisurely days to get it set up (about the same time it took me for WinME which required about the same number of patches). XP recognized my scanner and CD-RW immediately. My games play great. Seven weeks now, no crashes. Not one. Nada.
216 posted on 01/10/2002 11:57:39 PM PST by SurferDoc
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To: Don Joe
I've purchased near twenty Dell computers. They all came with the OS installation CDs and the installation CDs for Office (home, small business and professional). All of my Dells have come with the CDs for every preinstalled piece of software that came with the computer including drivers. No exceptions.

My newest Dell is a dual 2.0 GHz P4 and it came with a full Win2k installation CD (it is now called a "Reinstallation CD W2K + SP2"). The CD is not an image. It is the full installation CD. The CD key is on the case of the computer (and has been for the last several machines).

217 posted on 01/11/2002 12:12:49 AM PST by DB
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To: justin4bush
Good. I'm glad that at least one company (and one I plan to buy a top-of-the-line laptop from) is being ethical about its sales practices.
218 posted on 01/11/2002 4:11:16 AM PST by ShadowAce
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To: MarkL
You're only looking at the short-term costs. Long-term costs are important, too.

And, due to Microsft's asinine policies, the hospital in your example is wasting lots of money and man-hours doing unnecessary work.

You should consider the amount of time and money spent on:

These are non-trivial costs, but they always seem to get overlooked by Microsoft advocates.

You can migrate gradually, you know, which will spread migration costs over a long period of time.

See this article from CIO Magazine:

How to run a Microsoft-free shop

219 posted on 01/11/2002 4:22:50 AM PST by B Knotts
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To: Don Joe
Your clever and have a golden keyboard but your still a spammer.
220 posted on 01/11/2002 9:22:07 AM PST by Stentor
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