Posted on 01/05/2002 11:55:52 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
thoughtful, well developed Protestant articles which are pertinent to current events posted at FR by the haters. "
Josh's reply:
I don't think mosts Prots need to post articles of what men say to prove their faith and beliefs
Hmmm, I think Josh missed something....
blessed just "among women"?
Jael was blessed "ABOVE WOMEN"!!
Why don't you pray to her. She's above Mary according to God, and God blessed her above women for driving a tent stake through Sisera's head. (Judges 5:24)
Mary only gave one commandment, John 2:5 "His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it." Why don't you obey this?
LOL!
Yep, that is the descent into perdition.
Classic!
When did I ever claim you as Catholics believed anything unscriptural? I try relatively hard to stay out of the Catholic vs Protestant threads that get so volatile. First of all, I'm not Protestant (until recently my husband and I attended an Independent Baptist church - and Baptists are not Protestant - and currently we attend a non-denominational Bible church) and second of all, I said nothing in this thread to indicate any personal views about Catholicism.
Certainly there are probably things that you and I may disagree on, but we have yet to discuss them.
In response to your post, however, I will say this - just because a point not specifically mentioned in scripture can be reasoned out based on a combined study of references, does not mean that Christians always draw scriptural conclusions. I think common sense and basic exegesis play an important part in determining doctrine, and there are certainly extrabiblical doctrines in practice out there today as well as those that have been practiced throughout history.
I agree with you completely - we are given the Holy Spirit, we are promised to be led into all truth, and just because something isn't mentioned specifically in the bible does not mean that it is not determinable based on scripture. However, if a doctrine or tradition seems contrary to scripture, we are instructed to be wary of it, measure it against scripture, and reject if it is found lacking. I'm sure we can agree on that as well.
Have a great day. :)
You Protestants are impossible! That's assuming you are EXPRESSING your faith by the life you lead. I notice you didn't comment on the "faith without works is dead" quote from James; you also didn't comment on the quote from 1Cor6:9-10: "...DO NOT DECEIVE YOURSELVES, NO SODOMITES, THEIVES, MISERS, OR DRUNKARDS, NO SLANDERERS OR ROBBERS WILL INHERIT GOD'S KINGDOM.
Or maybe you might be better persuaded by Rev 3:1-2: "...I know the reputation you have of being alive, when in fact you are dead! Wake up, and strengthen what remains before it dies. I find that the sum of your DEEDS is less than complete in the sight of my God."
Returning to 1 John 5:10 "Whoever believes in the Son of God possesses that testimony within his HEART [not head]..." means we must ACT on that testimony by leading clean lives according to His law and worshipping God and being solicitous of one another (LOVE).
And further: "There are in the end 3 things that last: faith, hope, and love, AND THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE (1Cor13:13)."
Please respond so we can continue onto the other points you raised.
There will ALWAYS be those who seek to destroy and subvert the beliefs. They are called HERETICS.
The Church is made up of sinners. Despite that the deposit of faith has been kept intact.
Infalliability is one of the major differences between catholics and protestants. Its defined as "a divinely revealed dogma" that "the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks "ex cathedra" -- that is, when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church -- is, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals.
The battles within the Catholic Church since Vatican II have been fought over many issues, mostly sexual, but the real conflict has been over the teaching authority of the Magisterium. Both on the left and the right there has been a reluctance to accept the guidance of the Magisterium on certain topics. This has led to an outright rejection of the Magisterium’s teaching authority by dissenters on the left, and, less frequently, to attempts at a highly legalistic revisionism on the right.
Man in his fallen state does not like authority. He prefers to make his own rules. Satan’s proposal to Adam and Eve will always have resonance: man, rather than God, gets to decide what is right and wrong. But this attempt at a radical human autonomy is bad metaphysics; it ignores the fact that in God "we live and move and have our being." It is also a formula for unhappiness. God is only interested in our own good, both now and in eternity, and this good can be anchored only in objective truths which we ourselves do not create.
But we need an infallible means of knowing these truths, since our intellect and judgment are clouded.
The Catholic church was formed at the moment of the descent of the Counselor, the Spirit of Truth, upon the Apostles, on pentacost Sunday. Peter stood up and preached--and even though many tongues were spoken, all present understood. The same spirit still guides and forms the church and speaks through Peters successors. Hence--the need for infalliability.
I think I over responded because I thought you had made another strong remark previous to the one I responded to. I mixed up your screen name with another. Sorry.
I added you to my ping list (but I warned everyone that I'm bullheaded on Culture of Life issues and the Church, please don't be offended by the things I ping to!)
God Bless,
Dr. Brian Kopp
Sorry for caps, Im too lazy to re-type.
A person is saved by God's grace, through faith. (EPH 2:8)8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Notice: Created UNTO good works, not because of good works, but created FOR good works to be done through you. It is quite simple.
Rpmans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Notice we are not justified through works, but by the Blood of Christ.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
' The writer of Romans spells it out: The law, works, does not save us, it is through faith in Jesus Christ, it is the Believer in Jesus that is justified, not the doer of good deeds, but the believer.
Read the section before this in Romans 3 again:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Galatians is also quite vocal on this.
Galatians 3:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
SEVENTH SESSION, CANONS ON BAPTISM: "If anyone says that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons on Baptism, Canon 5). BAPTISM IS A WORK, It is something a person does, and according to RC doctrine, it is necessary for salvation.
Also, Pennance and confession are demanded for salvation according to RC doctrine, but not necessary in the Bible, for confession to a priest is a work, and so are pennances (good Works, prayers, etc)
FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: "If anyone says that in the Catholic Church penance is not truly and properly a sacrament instituted by Christ the Lord for reconciling the faithful of God as often as they fall into sin after baptism, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 1).
FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: "If anyone denies that sacramental confession was instituted by divine law or is necessary to salvation; or says that the manner of confessing secretly to a priest alone, which the Catholic Church has always observed from the beginning and still observes, is at variance with the institution and command of Christ and is a human contrivance, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 7).
FOURTEENTH SESSION, CANONS CONCERNING THE MOST HOLY SACRAMENT OF PENANCE: "If anyone says that the confession of all sins as it is observed in the Church is impossible and is a human tradition to be abolished by pious people; or that each and all of the faithful of Christ or either sex are not bound thereto once a year in accordance with the constitution of the great Lateran Council, and that for this reason the faithful of Christ are to be persuaded not to confess during Lent, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA" (Canons Concerning the Most Holy Sacrament of Penance, Canon 8). You see, Roman Catholic Doctrine disagrees with Scripture, and quite openly
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