[PleaseReadBeforeJudging] Why Only Catholicism Can Make Protestantism Work: Bouyer on Reformation

Catholic Dossier/ CERC ^ | MARK BRUMLEY

[Cleburne]

Hey Proud2bRC, would you add me to your ping list ifins it's not to much trouble? I promise to be good and not imitate my Methodist parson friend's manners!

[RaceBannon]

I have access to TRENT, VATICAN II and I have my own copy of the New Catechism, I have no need to ask you anything, however, I would love to explain the Scriptures to you if you have need.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

What is funny is that this thread is the only article that I ever see here at FR posted by a Catholic that hints at the weakness of Protestantism. And even so, it is a benevolent portrayal of Protestantism, at that.

Apologetics with ATTITUDE!

brought to you by

The Few, The PROUD, The Church Militant.

[RaceBannon]

My Mom's Great grand mother is from the North!

[JMJ333]

Are the Council of Trent's regulations still in effect? Or can a Council be overruled? Thanks. (No baiting intended!)

Can you be specific about regulations?

The Ecumenical Council of Trent has proved to be of the greatest importance for the development of the inner life of the Catholic Church.

The assembly proved to the world that notwithstanding repeated apostasy in church life there still existed in it an abundance of religious force and of loyal championship of the unchanging principles of Christianity. Although unfortunately the council was not able to heal the religious differences of western Europe, yet the infallible Divine truth was clearly proclaimed in opposition to the false doctrines of the day, and in this way a firm foundation was laid for the overthrow of heresy and the carrying out of genuine internal reform in the Church.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

He was right, remarkably similar to "Mormon" histories. You guys have gold plates too proving this fanciful history? Or were they taken up into heaven with Joseph Smith's?

[Cleburne]

Uh-oh, you posted a guy with a sword! You must be one of them crazy Catholic fundies, no doubt gonna fly an airplane into a mosque screaming "I love the Pope". Yep, we better lock you up with all these other bigoted religious crazies. You probably believe in absolutes too, don't ye'? Dangerous folk you people! < sarcsm >

[Dr. Good Will Hunting]

Cool graphic. The one who is face down lost.

[PleaseNoMore]

I am not Catholic. I am not Baptist. I am most certainly not Calvanist. I am of no denomination. I agree with your post 150%.

[Cleburne]

So what of the above items Race posted regarding faith and such? Are all those things taken as infallible?

[Dr. Good Will Hunting]

< sarcsm > = < /sarcasm >?

[kstewskis]

Oh no no no not me! Race was referring to an earlier post he noted from me. I had said that our parish was teaching that one did not have to be baptized in order to be "saved", in that Jesus had "paid our tab" in the death and resurrection. ("Our" meaning mankind). He wrote that he was quoting from the Cathechism that Catholics *had* to be baptized in order to be saved.

That is when he called me a protestant :-)

[JMJ333]

I see. You really aren't interested in asking about a misconception. You just came to look down your nose at us in your pride. Got it. Thanks.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

There you go. End of story.

Not the end of the story, you missed several passages where predestine or a form thereof is found in Scripture. Spelling and comprehension seem to be two of your achille's heels. But the question posed was where is predestination found, as in Calvin's doctrine of who gets salvation and who doesn't? If predestination is indeed valid and Scriptural, the gift of God's grace and our ability to choose or reject it is nonexistent. That would also mean that the incarnation, passion, betrayal, Crucifixion, the Commandments, the Sacraments including, but not limited to, penance, marriage and baptism, faith and Scripture itself are unnecessary. That sounds more like Deism, not Christianity.

You also failed to answer the question about free will.

[glory]

If Catholicism is a cult, then it doesn't bode well for Protestantism--that can't get it straight WHAT it believes in as things keep "evolving" and bifurcating.

This is laughable. You can search anywhere on the web to get a list of all the things that "evolved" in the Catholic religion throughout the years along with the year it happened(in the list are many rituals that catholics hold dear). Many of the reformers were seeking to rid the Catholic church of those man made additions and bring the church back to it's purer form. The were REFORMERS as in trying to REFORM the catholic church. Many did not start out as breakaways in the sense that you see some two bit pastor break away from churches today in some big huff and dispute over minor things. I guess Catholics aren't big on teaching the reason WHY protestantism really came about--as a result of the reformers being routinely excommunicated and having death sentences placed upon them for daring to challenge the pope at the time into some kind of discourse that would be POSITIVE for the church. Fact is that protestantism would have come around a couple hundred years earlier to, maybe even earlier than that for all we know, if the papacy of the time had not actually succeeded in killing people that opposed it or sought discourse with it. I suspect actually that this type of clarification and hope to purify the Catholic church had actually been going on when it was still young so the assertion that it was around 1500 years unchallenged as to it's practices and adherence to Biblical principles is surely up for debate.

[JMJ333]

Thanks for your civil tone. I really appreciate it. I have to put my son to bed, but I will tackle your question in the morning. =)

[rwfromkansas]

When God predestines someone, this means that they are chosen over others. It implies God's sovereignty over the matter. In the verse I cited, God is said to predestine TO THE ADOPTION AS SONS IN CHRIST through HIS WILL...his, not man's. Why is this hard to understand? It is not if you approach the issue fairly. Unfortunately, like myself several years ago, you aren't.

[JMJ333]

My fault! =)

[kstewskis]

oh not at all! Hug your little boy "nighty night", k? :-)

[Cleburne]

There were scattered groups of "Anabaptists" throughout the Middle Ages, though I seriously doubt they were at all connected, nor are they today to heavily for that matter. Central power has always been frowned upon amoung Baptists, at least when that central power is earthly.