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To: patent
Who is the arbiter of what those traditions are?

Traditions are those practices which made the Roman Catholic Church immutable and unchangeable and unequivocal. No dancing in the aisles, no Communion in the hand, no guitars, no English Masses, no tables facing the congregation, no ripping out of kneelers, but instead, absolute quiet at Mass, real Confessionals, and the graceful ambience of stained glass windows, Holy Water fonts, the Blessed Sacrament displayed prominently - not hidden off in some corner of the Church, High and Low Mass accompanied by the Schola singing beautifully in Latin. And real sermons and homilies, no social-work clap-trap.

As you know, Popes in the past have forbid any changes to the Latin liturgy. What passes for a "mass" (lower case on purpose) in the Novus Ordo churches is a travesty. Just read what many of the folks here have said about it.

117 posted on 01/03/2002 11:53:43 AM PST by Orual
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To: Orual
Traditions are those practices which made the Roman Catholic Church immutable and unchangeable and unequivocal. No dancing in the aisles, no Communion in the hand, no guitars, no English Masses, no tables facing the congregation, no ripping out of kneelers, but instead, absolute quiet at Mass, real Confessionals, and the graceful ambience of stained glass windows, Holy Water fonts, the Blessed Sacrament displayed prominently - not hidden off in some corner of the Church, High and Low Mass accompanied by the Schola singing beautifully in Latin. And real sermons and homilies, no social-work clap-trap.
You contend these things are all immutable and unchangeable? What a strange version of theology. Which Pope or Council issued a de fide declaration on no guitars, pray tell?
As you know, Popes in the past have forbid any changes to the Latin liturgy.
Yes, and then the next Pope invariably changes it. And the Pope after that, and the one after that, etc., on down through the ages. It is more of a tradition to change the Mass then it is to leave it alone.
What passes for a "mass" (lower case on purpose) in the Novus Ordo churches is a travesty.
What do you contend invalidates a Mass such that a lower case is justified? You are fully aware of the form and matter teachings regarding Sacraments. What is the form and what is the matter on the Mass? Check Aquinas’ Summa if you need help. You will see that even an illicit Mass that doesn’t follow the Rite is usually valid, and thus is a Mass. While it happens, it is rare that a priest is so wacky that he entirely invalidates the Mass, making it a “mass” (lower case on purpose).

patent  +AMDG

126 posted on 01/03/2002 12:13:03 PM PST by patent
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To: Orual, sinkspur
I just attended my *first* Tridentine Mass today. Had to travel a bit to find one! I am 42 so I barely remember the old Mass. I took my two kids and I came out of the Mass feeling it is a much "fuller" Mass than the Novus Ordo but I am mindful that whenever and wherever I go to Mass, the outcome is the same! I suggest the following article for your reading pleasure: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/3251/gengen2.html I hate it when we fight!
195 posted on 01/06/2002 7:47:33 PM PST by american colleen
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